RationalWiki:Saloon bar

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side-by-side (sticky)

This is probably too long/technical, but worth keeping in mid, for a sbs. Šţěŗĭļė zealot 12:25, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Looks worthwhile so I stickied it. ħuman 12:36, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Maybe I can set up just the "Truth or Dare" sections.... Šţěŗĭļė zealot 18:29, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Hmmmm... it's hard to figure out how to do this. It's the usual garbage: playing around in the gaps, claiming that irreducible complexity is evidence of something, saying there is a positive case for design, etc., but it's not clear what sections to include in a SBS. Šţěŗĭļė zealot 02:03, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Important changes regarding page titles (sticky)

& and + now work in page titles, e.g. User:Nx/sand&box and User:Nx/+sandbox will link to the correct page. However, this means that hacks like User:Nx&action=edit and User:Phantom Hoover&action=delete no longer work (since this is now correctly interpreted as a full page title). If you see something like this, change it to https://rationalwiki.org/w/index.php?title=User:Nx&action=edit.

There might be things that don't play nicely with this, e.g. I'm not sure how DPL will work with page titles containing + or &, and Capturebot2 for example uses & to separate pages in its configuration (though that's just minor problem).

If you see any breakage anywhere, tell me ASAP. -- Nx / talk 11:45, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

I thought we'd had this since an update ages ago since I'm we and Wikipedia have been able to get "Penn & Teller" for a while. Though I may be mistaken and getting it confused with some redirecting hack. But anyway, cheers for that, I'll keep an eye out. ^{d hominem} 13:01, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

No, it was not a MediaWiki problem, it was an apache problem. I'm rebuilding all link tables now (that's why the server is slow), because of this and because there's some DPL junk there too, and then I'll check Wantedpages. -- Nx / talk 13:03, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

Phyllis Schlafly says Sarah Palin not ready for White House

http://www.politicsdaily.com/2010/02/18/phyllis-schlafly-no-women-sarah-palin-included-ready-for-whit/ ^{— Unsigned, by: 71.227.237.132 / talk / contribs}

Phyllis! You got some splaning to do!! --Skeptical Moonbat is Skeptical 00:00, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

RW vs other Wiki Sites

This Wiki Site is awesome!!! sucks balls! is like other Wiki Sites in many ways but unlike in many others. For instance why are practically everyone sysops? When can me and my friends be sysops? Just wondered because it's been so long since I've been able to PWN the wandals and I want to do it again. Brianna (talk) 00:55, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Because sysop=fun time on teh wiki TKEtoolshed^{Frag Out!} 02:04, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Sysop just means that your risk-level is mid to low.--Thanatos (talk) 02:57, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

it means theres always a janitor around if a cleanup is required. Hamster (talk) 03:37, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

And you can block war! Totnesmartin (talk) 12:13, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Odd computer issue

Figure asking here is as good as anywhere. Just bought used laptop and putting the stuff on it that I want. Used IE to go get firefox (the only thing it's good for), all well and fine. Run firefox, and it can't find the internet. IE working "fine" (I'm typing this on the lappy using IE). Any ideas? Oh, this is on XP SP3 (I think it's SP3 anyway).

Also also, then I went to get skype using IE, and it balks - "problems connecting with the download server" and when I click on "try another" or some such, it opens a new tab in firefox, which can't find the internet. Which one of you jokers' idea was this??

Thanks for any advice in advance...

The good news is that the corldless mouse & KB a friend gave work with it nicely! ħuman 01:03, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Chrome chrome chrome. -- Mei (talk) 01:19, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Yet more proof that Mei==awesome. --The Emperor _{Kneel before Zod!} 01:23, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Try Tools->Options->Advanced->Network->Connection and check that the proxies etc are all as the should be. Jack Hughes (talk) 01:34, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, "no proxy" is checked just like on this machine. Gonna try chrome just for fun. Then I might just put in my XP pro SP3 disc and start from scratch ;) ħuman 01:51, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

You might have a problem with ipv6 in Firefox. You can disable it by typing about:config in the address bar and going to the option network.dns.disableIPV6, right click and select toggle. Bondurant (talk) 10:06, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Firewall? Try disabling the firewall and see if it makes any difference? Worm^{(t | c)} 10:44, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

That's probably the best suggestion. If it's a new install it may have the security settings ramped up and will be blocking programs other than IE. Try Opera and Chrome to see if they trigger the firewall message and then reinstall FF from scratch. It may also be dependent on what you have as "default browser", it may not have switched to FF (or it has switched to FF which is why your Skype problem is opening FF instead of an IE window). ^{d hominem} 12:06, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Thanks everyone for the suggestions! I ended up deciding that there was some crappy firewall type stuff left on the thing, so I borrowed a Dell OEM XP disc from a friend and started fresh. Of course then I was missing some key drivers like ethernet and video, but a nice young man in Bangalore helped me load up the 10/100 driver from the Dell site, which worked. Then I went and got firefox, all good, downloaded random display drivers from Dell until one did the job properly. Now to go get skype for this thing! ħuman 19:13, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Of course, MS doesn't like the license ID sticker on the bottom of the machine... even when I get the 8's and B's sorted out. Hmmm, I wonder if that's an O not a 0? ħuman 00:24, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Queer computer issue

I have a potpal that I have fucked up, fixxed and fukt up again but good, the "product key" no longer allows the Windoze (SP1) to install.

I was thinking of installing a Linux product of some sort, (Ubuntu was suggested) and I have an .iso of it burned and ready to go. I wanted to run the Ubuntu and just get rid of the Microsift product....Question: Is this possible?

If the reply is overly long please refer to mine talk page (which is where my sig leads to). And thanks. CЯacke® 07:00, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Yes, it's possible. If you have documents, mp3s, photos, etc. then make sure you back them up onto an external drive, as your windows drive will be reformatted. You can then copy them back to your Linux installation.

If you're not yet totally sure about making the jump, then you can play around with a live cd for a bit, which won't install anything until you tell it to. You can also shrink your windows partition and install Linux alongside windows, which is handy while you're getting used to things. Bondurant (talk) 08:17, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Well, given the choice of having no laptop or having a laptop that is running linux....

I have been afeared of linux since the first I heard of it was backing in the olden days when one had to compile the kernel (manually) and install wanted components piecemeal [circa 1998?]. Another query, would it be able to see (and work with) the (household) network? Didn't think so. CЯacke®

I believe that you need to take up Latin-American dancing and learn how to Samba.  Lily ^{Inspirate me.} 09:55, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Can I echo Bondurant's recommendation of downloading the Ubuntu live CD and try before you buy. This will give you:-

• Confirmation that Ubuntu runs on your configuration
• A safe environment to check out file sharing etc
• The chance to load Ubuntu for real when you've seen how truly wonderful it is.

My Linux of choice is Mint which is very similar to Ubuntu but doesn't have the same hardware issues with my very old and strange (cheap) machine

Jack Hughes (talk) 10:30, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

If you are running it on a laptop the Ubuntu Netbook Remix is the way to go. I have it on my Eee PC and it is much more convenient with the smaller screen. - π 10:36, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

I don't agree with that unless your laptop has a very low resolution or your laptop is truly ancient. The netbook version is quite a departure from what you may be used to in Windows. I use a standard distro (OpenSUSE) on my laptop (screen resolution 1280*800) and it's fine. Nice and quick, and the whizzy graphical effects work well.

Network-wise, Linux works very well in that respect. Not sure how things work on Ubuntu, but generally, it is a case of installing Samba-client (or something similarly named), ensuring the Windows workgroup is set correctly and then working through a wizard to find the shared directory. Google is your friend when learning linux, as a quick search for "Ubuntu windows share" or something like that will return plenty of help. Bondurant (talk) 11:10, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Cosmos

Received the boxed set for my early birthday. I have made the decision to drop my entire life and watch it from front to back, and damn is it good. I'm amazed that they managed to produce it so many decades ago and still have it be relevant in so many ways even today. --The Emperor _{Kneel before Zod!} 01:16, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

You're so fortunate. I have to settle for the season I DVR'ed when The Science Channel ran it in its entirety a few months back. I could so do without the commercials. The Foxhole Atheist (talk) 01:21, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Special remastered millennium edition. Oh yes. (rubs box) --The Emperor _{Kneel before Zod!} 01:22, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

I could use a new copy of it myself. I wore out the VHS tapes when I bought it some 15 years ago. I blame Cosmos for my interest in science. Even though I was 4 or 5 when it originally ran on PBS, I still watched it then. Aboriginal Noise ^{with 4 M's and a silent Q} 03:00, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

@Foxhole - doesn't your DVR allow you to edit your recordings?  Lily ^{Inspirate me.} 07:34, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

No ma'am. Believe me. I've tried. The Foxhole Atheist (talk) 12:51, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Or at least wiz thought them at x64 speed? ^{d hominem} 13:01, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

That's what I do, Armondikov, but the DVR is sensitive and if you overshoot the end of a commercial block and try to immediately rewind to the resumption of the program it'll sometimes launch you back to the beginning of the recording and at other times send you all the way to the end where it hangs for up to a full minute on the "Delete/Don't Delete Recording" menu before you can do anything at all, even turn off the power. It's just a pain in the ass. The Foxhole Atheist (talk) 14:19, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

I used to have VCRs with a simple feature that would FF through 30 second increments, you could press it up to four times. Funny that a DVR wouldn't have such an automated process. ħuman 21:51, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Uh, my Motorola HD DVR box does. And my regular MythTV system did. TIVO's do depending on the model. It's just software. 17:25, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

I'm not saying that they don't, just mine doesn't, apparently. Then again, it is the stock crap box that's part of the digital cable package, so probably not. The Foxhole Atheist (talk) 20:09, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

New section for SusanG's linky

Theocracy as it might be. Hat tip   ^Contribs_Talk 11:13, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Forgotted to put header. Sorry & thanx Bondurant.   ^Contribs_Talk 12:20, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Wow. Scary website. Tetronian ^{you're clueless} 13:07, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

'sokay, Susan. You can rename the section to something more meaningful if you like. Herr Schlafly would like that they mention the abortion-breast cancer link: [1]. Bondurant (talk) 13:22, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

At first I thought it was "Repent Armadillo", and thought that had to be one of the craziest names I have bumped into. Javasca₧ Reticulating splines 14:05, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Well "The word armadillo is Spanish for "little armored one" (WP) so it's not a million miles away.   ^Contribs_Talk 14:51, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Be sure to check out the Warfare Map. Every entry I looked at is by some user going by the rightly good christian handle of "Raven". I was also amused to see the concentration of sex shops and gentlemen's clubs right next to the airport. The Foxhole Atheist (talk) 15:00, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

"Compromised Church's" [sic]   ^Contribs_Talk 15:10, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

That intro music is crying out for a Peter Kay replacement. --Sean^talk 15:11, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Wonder why they've got dandruff falling on every page.   ^Contribs_Talk 15:13, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

That's not dandruff. That's nuhk-you-ler fallout from god's divine wrath. You know, once the rapture comes and all his soldiers get called home before the tribulation. (Or is it the ones who survive the tribulation and remain faithful? Or is after the war with the forces of evil? Or is it...? If only there were a website that could tell us the definitive answer.) The Foxhole Atheist (talk) 15:22, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Those blue links make my eyes scream.  Lily ^{Inspirate me.} 17:09, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

I also noticed the "Compromised Church's" Susan Not-Toast. I had a good, soft chuckle at the fact that both locations are in very close proximity to these locations. Coincidence? I think that fast-food chicken is an integral part of god's plan for the war on whatever. The Foxhole Atheist (talk) 18:10, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

That website's mission of witnessing to non-believers at inappropriate places and times reminds me of an incident from a few summers ago. I was still drunk from the night before when my apartment buzzer was rudely mashed by some religionists early one Sunday morning. Bleary eyed, I stumbled over to the intercom box and said hello. They asked me if I had a moment to discuss a personal relationship with JC. I said no thanks and went back to sleep. 10 minutes later someone knocks on my door. It's that same group I already politely declined entry to my building. Someone else buzzed them in and they took it as an opportunity to go door to door at a time when most atheists of drinking age are either still intoxicated or are sleeping off their good cheer. I answered the door with the stink of bourbon emitting from my pores. They didn't skip a beat ignoring the fact that I was standing there in my underwear and asking me the same question they did before. I asked the leader, whose voice I recognized, if he was able to recognize my voice from the intercom conversation we had not 10 minutes earlier. And I told him I'd call the police if he didn't immediately stop trespassing and soliciting in my fucking hallway. I now have a sign on the door of my building that says "No religious soliciting". Nobody in the building seems to mind not getting bothered on Sunday mornings anymore. I'm an asshole, I know, but I would appreciate a little fucking respect from people who want to preach at me. 17:35, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

NDE

We don't have any articles on NDE's (Near Death Experience). I don't know much about the subject but it is one of the things many religious defenders hang on to. Most of the arguments are that there is no scientific explanation for these. As I understand, critics of NDE suggest that this is due to chemical processes in the brain. The nature of the subject makes it hard to research. I'd like to hear opinions about this from someone who has more info on the subject. Mr.Orange (talk) 14:50, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

This might be relevant to your quest. (haven't viewed it, bandwidth)   ^Contribs_Talk 14:55, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Bradley thinks In fact NDE encounters and “alien” encounters share several elements. I have become convinced that both are demonic visitations. Hah! I said Bradley "thinks"!!!!   ^Contribs_Talk 14:57, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

We have an Out-of-body experience article, which touches on near-death as well as other examples. I'm sure there's scope for a separate article. Wěǎšěǐǒǐď^{Methinks it is a Weasel} 23:00, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Scams

Checking through my junk mail folder I found this:

From: Thomas Smith [thomas@ukcustoms.co.uk]

Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 1:08 AM

To: undisclosed-recipients:

Subject: UK Customs / Heathrow Airport

Hello

The route taken through Customs is mainly determined by your point of departure and whether you are bringing into the country more duty payable goods than your free allowance. For those passengers who have flown in from outside the European Community (EC), their baggage will have a white tag and they must pass through either the Red or Green channel according to the amount of duty free goods they have. Those passengers arriving from countries within the EC should use the Blue channel, and their baggage will have green-edged tag.

As part of our routine check and based on the above, we have a consignment in your name; you are advised to come to the office address below

Customs office

Terminal 3

Heathrow Airport

You are required to come with the following:

1. Your ID

2. Diplomatic Tag either white or green-edge tag.

3. Non Inspection document

Your appointment time is 10am GMT, failure to comply; we will have over the matter to Metropolitan and the FBI. I am the officer in charge of your matter.

Thomas Smith

UK Customs

Heathrow Airport

OK, I know it's some type of con but what are they trying to get?  Lily ^{Inspirate me.} 16:54, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

See here and the comments here. Bondurant (talk) 17:14, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

I imagine the "testing" explanation is the most plausible. Trying to scam the filtering systems themselves is a big job and I don't think this would do it. But what if the address wasn't Heathrow but some office, randomly just somewhere, and people started turning up? All you'd need to do is crack them on the head, steal the ID (or if you're really clever you don't even need to harm them to grab the ID details) and then you've got a ton of documents to sell on. ^{d hominem} 17:18, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

It's just some rather shoddy advance fee fraud. It makes a bit more sense when you look at an example of the same email sent from a fake DHL address (i.e. you have a valuable shipment to collect from customs). The hook of the email is just the "you need to contact us urgently" message. The red-channel blue-channel stuff is just some randomly chosen customs spiel copy-pasted in to try to look official, even though it makes no sense in the context of attending an office appointment. No doubt if you reply to this, you'll be told that there's some kind of release fee or customs charge to pay for some hypothetical stash of cash from a mysterious benefactor far across the seas or some such. Wěǎšěǐǒǐď^{Methinks it is a Weasel} 23:34, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Hospitals

this sucks I'm in the hospital after getting hurt at cheer practice. i just got admitted. hospitals these days are a mess.

expression of sympathy :( . Now for details - break , strain , or concussion. Plummet from the top of a pyramid , or missed catch, pulled muscle doing splits , or cartwheel gone wrong ? curious on details, assume it wasnt a pom-pom injury ? Hamster (talk) 17:58, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Cheerleading? What? Is this some odd thing you have invented in the States? Why would one be in a position to plummet from atop a pyramid, and what links could this have with pom-poms? Mindless word Hoover! 22:06, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

I have no idea who invented it, but it does enhance our otherwise relatively boring American football games. Tetronian ^{you're clueless} 23:06, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

I'll wager Ed's a fan.   ^Contribs_Talk 23:09, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Bear

I'm a web bear apparently:

Slow-moving - Web Bears like you browse the internet at a leisurely pace - just like real world bears who like to take their time over things.

Solitary - Like real bears, Web Bears tend to be solitary animals. Your results show that when you are looking for information, you are less likely to use social networks or other sites whose content is created by its users, preferring instead to go it alone.

Adaptable - Web Bears are highly adaptable multitaskers, able to do several things at the same time. Real-bears are also very flexible, particularly in their diet, and will eat fish, insects, salmon and even scavenge in human refuse for new sources of food.

  ^Contribs_Talk 00:59, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Ring of fire

Seems to be acting up: more quakes in Chile & now in Taiwan too.   ^Contribs_Talk 01:04, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

I am currently sitting above the Australian Tectonic Plate which is riding over the top of the Pacific Plate. Smack bang on the ring of fire. I am looking forward to looting. Aceⁱ⁹ 01:16, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Yo'll no doubt be familiar with the ring of fire, Ace, on those mornings after a really hot curry/chilli. when you've got the bathroom booked.   ^Contribs_Talk 01:31, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

I don't eat curry. Aceⁱ⁹ 01:37, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Probably wise in view of your legendary alcohol consumption. Over here though they do tend to go together: booze & curry, that is.   ^Contribs_Talk 01:42, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

I tend to have an enormous breakfast of eggs, bacon, toast, musrooms, sausage, omelette, ham, several coffees and a beer or two at about 11am before I start my drinking day. Then I don't eat at all until the next day when I start it all over again. Probably not healthy but fuck it. If I was worried about health I'd quit smoking first off. Aceⁱ⁹ 01:50, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Mmmmm, breakfast. Perhaps you need to go to this scummy place. ħuman 07:05, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

There's only one true breakfast, and this fella has spent a great deal of time finding this island's finest purveyors thereof. Conversely to Ace's tactics, I prefer to kick-off my drinking day without breakfast, then stuff my face in the evening, thus ensuring I'm not hungry the next morning, so I can go out drinking straight away without brekky. DeltaStar_{Senior Sysop}^{Speciationspeed!} 20:02, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Michael Foot

Has died. Probably one of the last of the true socialists (pace Tony Benn)  ^Contribs_Talk 01:23, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Weird to see the old bat (spit) and smarmybollocks joining the effusive praise... come on David Owen, play nice... Totnesmartin (talk) 13:57, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

I'm sure when Thatcher croaks it, all her opponents will speak of her in glowing terms. Maybe even Scargill... Still, I think Michael Foot deserves the praise. Even if you disagreed with his policies, nobody could say he wasn't true to his principles - something that is all but extinct in the House these days. Bondurant (talk) 14:49, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Even if you disagreed with his policies, nobody could say he wasn't true to his principles - never a truer word as been spoken. DeltaStar_{Senior Sysop}^{Speciationspeed!} 20:04, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Child's play

Kid directs traffic @ JFK (And yes, I am liveblogging the news).   ^Contribs_Talk 01:26, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

And on ABC news   ^Contribs_Talk 01:45, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

kids father and supervisor suspended for FAA investigation. Pilots union apparently talking to pilots who took kids radio calls. Hamster (talk) 04:55, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

My talk radio was mostly treating it as a joke - "take your kid to work day" gone really wrong. ħuman 07:53, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

IMHO, that's "take your kid to work day" gone really right! ^{d hominem} 16:24, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Hehe, yeah, that too. The kids must have loved it, and it sounded like the pilots got a kick out of it, too. ħuman 19:23, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Who is a socialist?

I've been stuggling with this question since the first time this accusation came up in 2008. The right claims Obama is a socialist, the left is dismissive of this claim ... But who exactly is a socialist? A socialist is one who is a "political advocate of socialism". Socialism is "a political theory advocating state ownership of industry".

Here's where I think almost everyone left of Ron Paul can be called a socialist, at least partially, and everyone to the right of Bernie Sanders can say they're not a socialist.

Do you support the US Postal Service?

Do you support free public libraries?

Do you support your public schools?

Do you support attending state universities?

Do you support a standing military?

The list goes on ...

Does this make you a socialist? Or is this just a logical fallacy to get people in the center and right of center to support even more government control of capital and industry in the name of consistency?

I guess I find that calling someone "a socialist" is an extremely imprecise way of characterizing someone's economic ideology. I don't find the word malicious or naughty, just imprecise. ConservapediaEditor (talk) 10:28, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

I agree. I don't think "socialist" is a binary adjective (so to speak). Socialism, as I see it, is a very wide spectrum. I think the same of "capitalist". And I think it's possible to have political views that accommodate both socialism and capitalism (all be it in varying proportions). Here's how I picture it:

               <-- more socialist           more capitalist -->
Communism <--------------------------------------------------------> Libertarianism

^{ONE / TALK} 10:41, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Let me fix that for you before ListenerX comes along:

               <-- more Red                Less Red -->
Red <--------------------------------------------------------> OK, you're good

Bondurant (talk) 10:48, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

This is a problem with sticking to the bounds of 'left right' politics. Economic stances are not the same as civil/moral/political stances. That's why the idea of the political compass is much more accurate. For example, I am on 'the left' when it comes to (some) aspects of economics (a fairer distribution of wealth, profits shouldn't be made from providing essential services) but I'm very much on 'the right' in that I am a Libertarian when it comes to other things. DeltaStar_{Senior Sysop}^{Speciationspeed!} 12:42, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I should have said "economic views", not "political views". I certainly don't pretend that the above spectrum can be applicable to social or foreign policies, or the amount of centralisation in government. The spectrum is only a small piece of one's whole outlook. ^{ONE / TALK} 16:13, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Personally I wouldn't call any of the items on the above list "industry". ħuman 19:37, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

But, PS, General Motors is. ħuman 19:40, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

This is why most of the world thinks America is nuts, how can anyone be pro/anti-the fucking postal service? It delivers letters to your god-damn letter box. You write an address on an envelope, you put a stamp on it, you stick it in a letterbox and in a few days someone takes it to the place you wrote down. How can you possibly have a view on that either way? - π 23:39, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

@Pi: It's funny, I've never looked at it that way. In the US, everything is looked at in terms of two things: 1) does it mean more government control over people's lives, and 2) how much am I going to have to pay for it? This is true even for trivial things like the Postal Service. Tetronian ^{you're clueless} 02:42, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

These days you can't even take the postal service for granted. In the UK, Royal Mail is well on its way towards privatisation, which would be an absolute calamaty. It has already been opened to competition in some aspects (business postal services, mainly), which RM is still obligated to deliver, and is being run as a limited company, meaning that the focus is already shifting from the quality of its service to pure profitability. In practise, this all adds up to greater amounts of junk mail, carried by fewer posties, doing longer routes; and to a demoralised workforce that is going on strike from time to time. All this has happened under a supposed left wing government! Bondurant (talk) 09:29, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Atlantis

AIG's version Hat tip   ^Contribs_Talk 12:17, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

If you're a criminal in the UK, the game's up.

Just turn yourself in, because the police have got a great new way of stopping crime - Prayer! Yes, really. And the christian police association have been given 10grand to put their plans in to action. (I know this is an old story, but I have only just discovered it). This really really annoys and worries me; that we have serving police officers who actually think that speaking magically to an invisible pixie in the sky can reduce crime! I'm pissed off enough that there are so many divisive 'associations' within the police, (christian police association, muslim police association, jewish polish association, gay police association, and even the pagan police association. Although sadly there is no Jedi police association, despite there being a few Jedi officers.) when non of them are needed. Arrrggghhhh! I'm off to the pub.......... DeltaStar_{Senior Sysop}^{Speciationspeed!} 12:50, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

WIGO'd last week... Totnesmartin (talk) 13:55, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

That's me telt, then! I felt better for writing it though. DeltaStar_{Senior Sysop}^{Speciationspeed!} 17:30, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

what would be interesting is an article in say a year , about the results achieved . Hamster (talk) 18:39, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

The Christian Policing Association, an evangelical group (suprise surprise) , are a bunch of bigoted bastards with a thing for biblical inerrancy. The latter is explained the "beliefs" section of their website. They made the following wonderful statement of inclusiveness when challenged on their homophobic behaviour: "We believe consistent homoerotic sexual activity without repentance to be inconsistent with membership of the Association. Charming. Perhaps the KKK can pick-up some funding if they offer to help discourage littering. Utter, utter, reprehensible shower of bastards who are perfectly entitled to their fruity little club, but it sure as hell should not be receiving grants paid for by people who they discriminate against for no good reason other than personal bigotry justified by an old book of incomprehensible meaning.^{Ask me about your mother} 19:57, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Infiltration

I have the feeling that we are being infiltrated by teenagers, possibly from the UK(though they are likely using proxies. What should I do? Should I care? Tyrannis (talk) 17:58, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Do something fun. --Swedmann (talk) 18:04, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Or just wait and see what actually happens. That bracket brain thing was not vandalism. It was just odd and unintelligible. 18:05, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

I'll wait and see. Mei seems to greet them by name, so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt, for now. Tyrannis (talk) 18:10, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Leave 'em alone. They're only doing what kids do i.e. getting under the adults' feet. Toleration is all.   ^Contribs_Talk 18:24, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Ok. I'll get back to janitorial stuff and stop being paranoid, they're probably not much younger than me. Tyrannis (talk) 18:29, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Hang on, what UK teenagers do we have here, other than me and Josh? Mei? Brianna? SRQ girl? Mindless word Hoover! 18:49, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Well, I'm in my second (or possibly third) childhood.   ^Contribs_Talk 18:54, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

This morning I got bored and ran whois on all the ip editors. 1 was from Germany, 1 from Australia, and 1 from the UK. The UK one (brain article)was greeted by Mei, who greeted her as "Jackie" I have far far too much time on my hands and googled the ip adress. It has a history on several wikis including a "non productive" on wikibooks, as well as one on wikiquote. However, I know we have different standards here are simply ignored them until I remembered Brianna, who reported a history of disagreements with wikis, and who I asked a wandalism question earlier. I have no problem with anything they are doing(I am not TK), I just thought I should let you guys know. Tyrannis (talk) 19:02, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

I greeted Jackie as Jackie because she made such a big deal about Leaving And Really Never Coming Back. Jackie is pretty much harmless, and I doubt she's a teenager. I also thought our newest arrivals were probably American. This 'Mei' person is totally infiltrating RW, though. Watch your backs. -- Mei (talk) 19:26, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

I like to take out our community standards and dust them down from time to time. I'd just like to remind people of this one on privacy. On an associated point I rather feel that we should treat all people the same whether they claim to be 14 of 70. We have standards which everybody should follow whatever age they claim to be.--Bob^{It's windy!} 19:36, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Ok, I'll get back to my aimless linking. Apologies to everyone involved. Tyrannis (talk) 19:58, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

SF writer

What kind of SF writer are you? Not telling mine!   ^Contribs_Talk 18:53, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Arthur C Clarke, which makes me happy. --Sean^talk 19:42, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

I'm jealous!   ^Contribs_Talk

I am Olaf Stapledon somehow. -- Mei (talk) 19:43, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

A bad one. Mindless word Hoover! 19:44, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

L Ron Hubbard? --Sean^talk 19:46, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

I was Asimov, to my great surprise. Tetronian ^{you're clueless} 22:12, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Who the fuck is William Gibson?--Thanatos (talk) 23:39, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

He coined the term "cyberspace." Tetronian ^{you're clueless} 00:28, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Thanatos, I'm shocked!   ^Contribs_Talk

Just call me Ayn "Emperor" Rand. --The Emperor _{Kneel before Zod!} 02:59, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Me too! I'm mortified.   ^Contribs_Talk

I wouldn't call her work science fiction, it was more political fiction than anything else. Still, it's ironic that Thedictator autocrat emperor ended up with the queen bee of anarchy. Tetronian ^{you're clueless} 03:17, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Frank Herbert. YES!!!! My favourite!!!! TheoryOfPractice (talk) 03:24, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

He's great but his legacy has been trashed.   ^Contribs_Talk

I had to look up Hal Clement. Nice to see my school-years penchant for sci-fi cartoons with weird planets has left some traces... Totnesmartin (talk) 08:22, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Some great stuff. "Gravity" was one?   ^Contribs_Talk 11:40, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

HG Wells. Mindless word Hoover! 13:31, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Also HG Wells Bondurant (talk) 13:53, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Funny

See here. Tetronian ^{you're clueless} 19:34, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

I believe he will have a highly successful career in alternative medicine. DeltaStar_{Senior Sysop}^{Speciationspeed!} 20:57, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Hehe, I'd forgotten all about CAM4wiki. So, er, who is this "Janitor" person who is on a blanking binge there this afternoon, hmmm? ħuman 21:47, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

A question demanding the answer "no"

Tomorrow at lunchtime in the UK, the RSA have an interesting lecture on the topic of are there any good arguments for the existence of god? You can watch the thing live on the interwebs if you so desire. Considering who the speakers are, it should be quite entertaining. --JeevesMkII ^{The gentleman's gentleman at the other site} 22:27, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, really am

Again, rehashing what I already put up awhile ago, but a copy of one of Hannah Giles "help me, ACORN is trying to destroy me" letters is up here. Oh yeah, in case you didn't know, Giles said that O'Keefe did not wear the pimp costume inside ACORN and Breitbart said he did not know what was on the tapes. The NYT will not change their belief that O'Keefe wore the outfit because he said he did it. O'Keefe also says his next video is ready to go...--Thanatos (talk) 23:46, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Manual of style

A certain Concerned Resident has suggested we move User:Human/Manual_of_style to Help:Manual of style, perhaps improve it a bit, and use it as "soft" policy. What thinketh the gathered mob and their pitchforks? ħuman 00:14, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Do it. Wěǎšěǐǒǐď^{Methinks it is a Weasel} 00:20, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

I hath read and have deemed it very good. Aceⁱ⁹ 00:26, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. As you can see by the blue link above, I have released it into the wild. I asked Susan to add her dpl thingie that integrates it with the other help pages. Could probably use a few judicious "see alsos" too. ħuman 00:31, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Woot, cheers. Human helps us write gud. --^{Ask me about your mother} 07:59, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Thanks CR! I'm glad yu speld yr comment rite! ħuman 08:57, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

And now for you incredibly rare dose of irrationality (from yours truly). (Discussion about penises!!!)

It's irrational, I know, but I am so incredibly over-the-edge pissed off right now. I am actually having a nigh-impossible time talking myself down from this wave of rage.

For those interested, my wife joined an anti-circumcision page on Facebook titled Saving Penises.

As some of you may know, I have a son. As none of you know, he is NOT circumcised. When we found out we were having a boy, I was ecstatic but the first thing out of my wife's mouth was "Oh my God. What about circumcision?" I was like "What about it?"

Dumb move on my part.

She worried herself sick about it and read and read and watched videos and would NOT STOP TALKING ABOUT IT.

I was actually no better about it myself. Every point she'd raise I would counter with some half-cocked (no pun intended), half-formed idea. After a week or two, I realized what an ass I was being and how illogically and irrationally I was approaching the situation. I finally capitulated because in all honesty, it IS a cosmetic procedure. There's no real reason to do it. Things can go wrong. We're not 16 year old kids with no idea how to keep a penis sanitary. Big deal. Fine, we weren't going to do it.

I thought that was the end. It wasn't. She keeps bringing up how "awful it is that so many parents do that to their children, don't they care?" and on and on about how traumatized the boys will be and how their sex lives will be ruined by the removal and on and on and on...

And now there's this web page comprised of 88% females (real stat pulled from the page itself) who are clamoring endlessly about how barbaric and blah blah blah blah blah... They DON'T HAVE PENISES. They don't know what it's like to have one. They know nothing about it except what they are told.

You know whose parents circumcised their kid because they loved him and thought it was the right thing to do? MINE. That's right. Mine. They cared. An "awful" fucking lot. They weren't barbarians. They were middle-class Americans trying to take care of their son. You know how traumatized I was by it? I DON'T EVEN REMEMBER THE FUCKING PROCEDURE. You know how impaired my sex life is? Not at all. It works just fucking fine enough for me, thank you very much.

My real beef isn't with the whole circ/no-circ argument at all. I don't give a flying fuck, really. I am circumcised. My son is not. I made half of that choice and I don't regret it. I guess I just don't understand where people without dicks feel as though they can pass judgement and make a value call on those who do.

This must be what it feels like for women with the whole abortion thing. Fuck. The Foxhole Atheist (talk) 02:24, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Another reason I'm glad I'm not having children. Seriously though--I'm cut, and while I kinda wish I wasn't for a few reasons, I have, oh, about 5768 other issues I need to resolve about myself and the world before this becomes something I'm willing to invest too much time in. I'd like to see the procedure banned--even for religious reasons, but there are other, more pressing problems facing North American boys these days. TheoryOfPractice (talk) 02:31, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Wait a second. Since when are newborns capable of formulating memories that last into adulthood? I fail to see how there would be any "trauma" at all. --The Emperor _{Kneel before Zod!} 02:34, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Well, I think you might argue that the knowledge that one has been maimed for no good reason might cause a certain degree of, if not trauma, at least emotional baggage. Not the same trauma as remembering a painful/disfiguring procedure, but still some sort of emotional difficulty. TheoryOfPractice (talk) 02:38, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

(EC)Exactly. The person being "protected" from trauma is the parent. My heart broke when I held my daughter and heard her cries during vitamin K and hepatitis shots right after she was born but, you know what? It was for her benefit, not mine. She's not going to remember it. My wife however, did, and I had to talk her down from refusing them when my son was born. I already ceded the circumcision thing and I thought I was clear with her on that; circumcision = unnecessary = not important (because we weren't doing it). Vaccinations and not bleeding out through the umbillical stump? VERY FUCKING IMPORTANT. The Foxhole Atheist (talk) 02:43, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Whether it's fundamentalists & creationists, or circumcision - America, watched from Europe, looks strange. I guess the opposite is true too. Editor at CP^{mały książe} 08:47, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

I have no comment to make here, mostly out of a desire not to gross out Dan Savage, who would think I am hot if I didn't out myself as uncut. OOPS! I like being whole. ħuman 09:01, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

OK here's a female POV. Many societies practise female circumcision on young girls which often results in disfigurement and pain. I oppose routine male circumcision out of solidarity with other humans because it has become a cultural thing and is not something that is necessary. In the UK there are not many men who are circumcised as common practice except for religious reasons. My nephew was circumcised however because of some physical problem. It is quite possible for men to look after their personal hygiene without circumcision, just as we girls look after ours. Although I have been told that cutting (or breaking) the frenulum makes it easier as the foreskin can be fully rolled back. One bloke I was with had the misfortune to break his frenulum just at the point of orgasm and it didn't half result in a lot of blood (and cost me a new mattress). Afterwards he said that he found it easier to keep his cock clean as the foreskin would stay rolled back on its own (the frenulum tries to pull it back over the glans) but the downside was that he didn't get as much stimulation without the action of the foreskin pulling on the frenulum. So although a man might say that infant circumcision hasn't affected his sex life doesn't know what it might have been like. Of course circumcision also acts as a badge, in Nazi Germany it was an easy way of identifying male Jews. One arab guy I knew said that he wasn't circumcised until he was 12 years-old, that it was extremely painful, and that all he was allowed to do was sit in a cold mountain stream to take the pain away. In my opinion, mutilating babies of any sex for social reasons is just not on.  Lily ^{Inspirate me.} 09:52, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

My frenulum tore over a period of a few weeks after my first girlfiend went on the pill and I no longer had the protection of latex. Sex was a bit painful during that period, and - yes - there will be was blood. I can't say that anything felt different after I healed, but it was a little bit easier to clean. Bondurant (talk) 11:30, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Related?

Do your balls hang low? Do they wobble to and fro? ^{Hat tip   Contribs}_Talk 13:55, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Don't Tell Andy

That Canadian conservatives (if there is such a thing) are planning to do a review of the national anthem to make it more gender-neutral.Surely this proves that there are no real conservatives in Canada! Haven't they read the conservative Bible!?--Thanatos (talk) 03:07, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

I've always found it funny how conservatives in the US think that conservatives elsewhere in the world are their political equals, especially when the US conservatives want their movement to get credit for something that conservatives located elsewhere did. Tetronian ^{you're clueless} 03:19, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Why the dinosaurs died

Apparently, "an extensive investigation by 41 leading experts from around the world" identified what really made the dinosaurs extinct: An asteroid strike, 65 million years ago, causing an extended global flood winter. We can only presume that PJR was left off the panel of experts, and so the YEC view has not been properly represented. Bondurant (talk) 11:49, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

I thought it was generally accepted PNAS 1998 (although that doesn't mean it's right of course, it could be argumentum ad populum.) There's no way we can be certain & there might have been other factors in the extinction.   ^Contribs_Talk 15:17, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Help me, is there a name for this logical fallacy?

Has anyone heard a name for the fallacy when someone invokes "everyone I talk to thinks so" or worse "everyone I know believes the same way" as support for their argument? Is it simply anecdotal evidence? I don't think so, because anecdotal evidence actually tells a specific story which may or may not be true, whereas this is likely someone pulling generalities out of their ass. Junggai (talk) 12:53, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

I think it's argumentum ad populum. Tetronian ^{you're clueless} 12:54, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

See also Three men make a tiger "Three men make a tiger is a Chinese proverb. It refers to the idea that if an unfounded premise or urban legend is mentioned and repeated by many individuals, the premise will be erroneously accepted as the truth. This concept is analogous to communal reinforcement or the logical fallacy known as argumentum ad populum or appeal to the people.   ^Contribs_Talk 13:18, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

I get the impression that it's drifting towards Common sense or "common knowledge". Those things wouldn't be names for a specific fallacy, but it sounds to me like the canards that begin with the phrase: "Everyone knows that <insert bullshit>". This is one of the key pillars of Schlafly statistics. Susan, thanks for mentioning the Chinese proverb. I was totally unaware of that. --^{Ask me about your mother} 14:19, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Little bit of meandering round wp, is all. I'd never heard it before either.   ^Contribs_Talk 14:47, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Actually I think that the proper response should be: "You ought to get out more" or "You know some strange people" or, of course, "this is likely someone pulling generalities out of their ass"   ^Contribs_Talk 15:08, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

The First Atheist Blogger?

"[I]n Lexington, Kentucky, surely one of the holes in the Bible Belt" ^{Hat tip   Contribs}_Talk 15:04, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Advice on CP memes

I'm working on an essay right now, and the basic idea is to create fictional characters that provide evidence of the stranger claims made at Conservapedia. For example, in the first story I explain how my mother wearing pants ultimately led to my being shot by a pregnant STD infected classmate. Here's the work in progress: User:Concernedresident/mystories. Any suggestions on memes I could use? I'm about to explain how Schlafly statistic saved my career as a statistician. --^{Ask me about your mother} 17:05, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Handwriting recognition

I've got handwriting recognition to work now that live installed Windows7 and installed the tablet dives. I'll give it another hour before the novelty was off or my hand cramps up... ^{d hominem} 19:11, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Victory is yours

My blog has failed. My attempts to irritate you have finally failed. The authoritarian Loya Jirga has destroyed your site. There is nothing I can do to save it. I really have left you now. Be in peace.

If some fascist decides that this edit should be burned or reverted, I will engage in an hour long wiki war this time tomorrow. It will be annoying and messy. This is the only request I make. You'll never see me again, cunts.

MC.