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Thunderf00t vs Ray Comfort (sticky)

Here is a link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2FskTKrx40 Mei (talk) 23:08, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

For people who have not seen it. Mei (talk) 23:08, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Too good to let it go to archives so fast. Thanks everyone for the fish, and especially to Mei for being useful. ħuman 08:48, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

strange sound in my computer air vent.

since yesterday i keep hearing a clattering sound (like a small piece of plastic keep getting hit by the air vent) but im not sure what it is since most of the time the sound is not there but today it keep making that damn sound and its starting to piss me off.Anyone has an idea what it might be ? Waronstupidity (talk) 06:40, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Reinstall Windows, see if that fixes it - David Gerard (talk) 06:52, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Did you try turning it off and on again? It is possible that your shift key got in there somehow, that would explain two problems. - π 06:55, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

06:59, 22 April 2010 (UTC) ^yummy &  ^honey_{(or marmalade)}

Your computer is processing too many 1s. Zeroes are round so sort of slide through, but Ones can get stuck, with the result you describe. Try holding down your 0 key for a while and see if that helps. –SuspectedReplicant retire me 07:01, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

.... ok which one of these amswer is a serious one? Waronstupidity (talk) 07:18, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Seriously can someone give me a fucking intelligent amswer for once? did you have your fun? can we be serious now? Waronstupidity (talk) 07:25, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Ignore all these smart-asses. It sounds like you have an overheating problem. This is often brought on by an accumulation of dust and fluff on your internals. You need to completely dissemble your PC and scrape off all the accumulated gunge on the cooling fan with a Q-tip and denatured alcohol. Make sure you have a wrist earthing strap to eliminate any static build up in your body. To avoid any possibility of damage you should wait at least 48 hours maybe even a week before switching the machine back on. If you still get the same noise it may be that your fan has worn bearings caused by the rotational imbalance. Replacement fans are quite cheap so buy the best you can afford and you will be able to hear the silence. If this still doesn't solve the problem check that there isn't a small piece of plastic hitting the air vent somewhere.  Lily ^{Inspirate me.} 07:31, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

that a pretty hardcore amswer(I'll try it though).Overheating? really? my computer brand new.... but what funny is i blown some air on the vent (while the comp was off) and the noise has stopped.... for now.What is that static thing you talking about? O_O and i really need to disassemble the whole thing? Waronstupidity (talk) 07:44, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

i dont think its overheating since my computer didn't slow down or another problem,the problem is only that clattering noise. (it stopped now since i blew some air on it but it might come back )Waronstupidity (talk) 08:13, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Static electricity can zap components on your motherboard that's why you need to ground yourself. Rotating fans build up static which attracts dust and stuff (check out any ceiling or desk fan) but if your PC is pretty new then it probably won't be fluff. Many cheap PCs use the cheapest components but cheap fans can make a noise, especially if they are damaged or unbalanced. Any self-respecting modder will install quality oversize low speed brushless fans both for inhaust and exhaust to improve airflow. Also the noise might only appear when the bearings warm up.  Lily ^{Inspirate me.} 08:19, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

do you really think it might be a overheating problem ? i don't have any other problem except for the noise :-(. I worked hard to get this computer. the Noise appear on Start up then disappear and sometime come back at random during the use of my comp, i paid around 1025$ for my comp. Waronstupidity (talk) 08:26, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

What make of PC do you have and where do you keep it - on a desk or on the floor? If it's new perhaps you could get it repaired under warranty but cheap fans are probably the problem unless something is actually pressing against the fan. When things warm up they can distort also check there aren't any internal wires near the fan blades.. One good tip is to give it a light kick when it starts to make a noise.  Lily ^{Inspirate me.} 08:35, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

My computer is on the ground far from the wall there plenty of space around it, and yes there a small wire going near the vent but if it kept hitting the wire wouldn't the sound be always there? Also i have a Pretty decent one the piece are not cheap, i have a quad core processor, 4 gig of ram, the latest graphic card.Waronstupidity (talk) 08:41, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

i do hope its not a overheating issue. Waronstupidity (talk) 08:52, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

I'm not clairvoyant so I can't see inside your PC but if the wire is close to the fan tape it away from the blades. You may have variable speed fans so that when it warms up the fans go faster and suck the wire in (or something). You can spend a lot of money on the electronic guts of a machine but it still might only have a cheap fan. I would move your PC onto a desk or table so that when you hear the noise you can listen to it and even have a look at what's happening.  Lily ^{Inspirate me.} 09:34, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Wipe your hard drive and install MS DOS. MS DOS has a utility called chkfan, which will run a series of tests on each system fan, e.g. slowing them down, speeding them up, testing temperatures etc. Goat only knows why Microsoft didn't update that utility for Windows. Sadly, you can't run it through a virtual machine, as chkfan needs kernel level access to your hardware. And as I recall, you'll need an extended memory manager, and set up a boot disk, as it uses more than 640kb of memory to run. Once all that is done, you should have a good indication of what is wrong, and you can go get a warrantee repair. Bondurant (talk) 09:36, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Enuff is enuff: If it's irking you that much, take it back to where you got it. If not live with it. If you've had the case off your warranty's probably blown though. Clean the fan and check for wobbly bearings. The wire might gret near the fan under certain conditions of heat & airflow: do what lilly said (you still stuck in Oz, Lil?) 09:44, 22 April 2010 (UTC) ^yummy &  ^honey_{(or marmalade)}

3 May is current ETD. :(  Lily ^{Inspirate me.} 09:54, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

what funny is the noise stopped(it happen at random interval), and sometime the vent is working really hard (like when i play a game that is very demanding)and the noise doesn't come.the Sound only appear at random and that's what make me paranoid. sometime it appear when the vent is working calmly or sometime it happen when it working harder.Waronstupidity (talk) 09:58, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Buy yourself a Commodore64 - no fan to worry about then. (and great music) DeltaStar_{Senior Sysop}^{Speciationspeed!} 10:34, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

iPhone owns commodore. --Swedmann (talk) 11:27, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Ok, a few diagnostics you can work on yourself:

1) Listen to the sound closely. If it sounds like a clicking noice, like plastic on plastic, then your fan might be hitting the grate/other piece of computer. Check the fan for wear on the blades, and the case for strikes/scratches. If found, then either tighten the screws holding the fan in place or or bend the fan back into it's regular shape. Cleaning the gunk off the fan can work, but you might have to replace it if it can't be bent back into it's original shape. If it sounds like a grinding noise [smoother, usually lower] then it's the bearings. Replace your fan.

2) If a new fan doesn't work, then you've narrowed it down to either the case [it's common to have cases get bent/warped during build] or a wiring problem. Check the case near the fan for parts that appear to be scraped or scratched, and you've found your 'strike point'. File down the area on the case, taking care that you're not destroying any electronics/structural necessities.

Toast is right on the warranty point. IF you've taken the case off of a new computer your warranty is done. Check to see if you can't send it in for repairs for free. -- CodyH (talk) 11:31, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Ok, this is going to sound stupid, but do give it a try. You say you notice the sound on Start Up? The next time you hear the noise during start up eject all your CD/DVD trays and see if the noise stops. Because I've had exactly the same problem, a loud rattling noise that sounds like a fan hitting a bit of plastic or a wire. This occurs during start up and the sound builds up and then disappears. I thought it was the fan, turned out to be the Game CD in the drive rattling around while the drives were being read.-- ^{Spirit of the Cherry Blossom} 16:47, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

What component is it coming from? It is safe to run a computer with the case open; the only component you need to worry about is the PSU (power supply unit), and it has its own case.

To open an upright push to left panel away from you (when facing the front of the machine)

For a desktop, pull the lid towards you.

However if the machine is still in warranty, take it back for repair. CS Miller (talk) 18:51, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

And if you need to be directed as to how to remove your computer case, skip it and consult a professional. ^{— Sincerely, Neveruse / Talk / Block} 19:12, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

thanks all for the quick amswer :-)Waronstupidity (talk) 20:23, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

All those great answers and no one brought up the possibility of gremlins? He could also try something I've used for grow-dee keyboards. Run it through the dishwasher. the trick is to make sure the machine is thoroughly dry before turning it back on. It totally works for keyboards. ^Me!Sheesh!_Mine! 01:14, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Nobody suggested prayer?--Bob^{Spring is sprung!} 06:00, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

I'd like to formally suggest prayer, with acknowledgments to Bob M (if that is even his real name). It might not help, but it sure can't hurt ^Me!Sheesh!_Mine! 01:10, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

This is a common problem. You need to remove the case fan by unscrewing it, clean it well, then spread peanut butter on it and microwave it on full for 60 seconds. Works every time. Crundy^{Talk nerdy to me} 20:07, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Looks like Arizona might end the birther movement, not with a bang....

If this birth certificate law passes in Arizona, what will basically have to happen is in 2012, when Obama runs for re-election, he would have to show his certificate to the AZ secretary of state (or whomever), which he will do, and they will have no choice but to admit he is indeed a US citizen, born in Hawaii. That would really have to take the wind out of the sails of the birther movement. Of course, they'll just demand a law that he would have to show said certificate to each and ever US citizen so they can determine for themselves if it is legit. DickTurpis (talk) 20:40, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

WHERE IS THE LONG FORM!!!?!?!?!?!! I must know the doctor's name who delivered him for me to believe it. ^{— Sincerely, Neveruse / Talk / Block} 20:45, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

If I can't hold the original in my hands, I ain't gonna believe it. --Kels (talk) 02:19, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

I won't believe it until I see a personally autographed foreskin. ħuman 02:40, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

If I can hold the original in my hands, I ain't gonna believe it. Tetronian ^{you're clueless} 02:27, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

You'll need bigger hands - David Gerard (talk) 22:20, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Paul Westerberg

Who's with me? The greatest fucking singer-songwriter ever. The more I drink the righter I get. ^Me!Sheesh!_Mine! 00:53, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

He had his day. Let It Be and that other one Please Please Me Pleased to Meet Me are brilliant, indeed. Trouble is, then someone called him a great fucking singer-songwriter and it messed with his head. I think Paul McCartney and his sidekick John Lennon, and some Jew from Minnesota easily give Westie a run for his money. ħuman 01:19, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

New (?) thing I found on wikipedia.

Look at source. ħuman 01:20, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

Those other fuckers are so mainstream that it is difficult to distinguish their output from pap. Also you've missed PW's DIY output from the last several years (49:00 especially). And besides Stereo/Mono kills, absolutely kills. I don't see nothing in the source ^Me!Sheesh!_Mine! 01:36, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

Look again only more carefully

They're only mainstream because they defined the fucking mainstream. Linkies to utubez for PW's apparently genius work? I'm curious. ħuman 02:39, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

Whoa whoa whoa whoa. MEI has joined the DEFENDING BEATLES group. Mei (talk) 05:02, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

a gift of a joke for human - wp:WP:Be bold Mei (talk) 05

22, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

Mei gets it. ħuman 05:52, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

I don't get it. I guess it is some sort of format thing. There isn't such a great representation of PW's most recent work that has made it to Youtube. Here is a smattering--mostly from Stereo/mono-- a great fucking set of albums.

• "kentucky risin" from 49:00
• "Be my Darlin" from 49:00
• It's a wonderful lie
• "devil raised a good boy" from 49:00
• Knockin on mine
• As far as I know
• Crackle and Drag (slow version)
• Two days till tomorrow
• Dirty Diesel
• Eyes like sparks

I find I care much less about spreading the good word about PW this morning than I did last night. I guess that's the crucial difference between coffee and alcohol. ^Me!Sheesh!_Mine! 12:17, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the effort. I shall explore these at my leisure. The formatty thing is that a simple semi-colon at the beginning of a line makes it bold. ħuman 00:20, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Initial comments: As far as I know sounds like everything he has been writing for the last twenty years. Good, but not really "news". ħuman 02:19, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

So does love you in the fall, although I don't know how old that is. ħuman 02:20, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

I think Love you in the Fall is a few years old from a movie soundtrack he did.

The formatty thing is actually one part of the wikicode equivalent of definitions lists. like so:

Paul Westerberg

The greatest most under appreciated contemporary singer songwriter. His singular voice and his roots inspired style may not appeal to modern more pedestrian pallets

or in HTML

Paul Westerberg

The greatest most under appreciated contemporary singer songwriter. His singular voice and his roots inspired style may not appeal to modern more pedestrian pallets

^Me!Sheesh!_Mine! 16:05, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Question on Late-term abortion

Ok, want to know if I'm alone on this: does anyone else think that, if a woman wanted to induce labor early (like, 6-months or so), or have a late term abortion, it would be unreasonable for the state to offer her some money to carry the child until it was less likely to be disabled for life? This came up on blogtv, and another guy was totally against it. I'm pretty against late-term abortion, but I think offering money to carry the baby longer would seem reasonable, since it could be the difference between a disabled individual we're all paying disability checks too for the rest of his/her life, or a tax-paying citizen (who would likely pay back teh money we gave his mom many times over). On the issue of how we regulate this: money is offered to women who give up their babies for adoption (I don't think women who wanted to keep the baby would give him/her up just to get a few grand from the government).--Mustex (talk) 04:31, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

Some of these late-term abortions are because of severe abnormalities anyway. I don't think anyone even in the pro-choice movement "likes" late-term abortions as it becomes riskier but then so does childbirth. The earlier an abortion is carried out the safer it is. Those who put obstacles in the way of abortion probably contribute to more late-terms. But those who campaign against abortion are also often those who object to proper sex education and the provision of family planning. It is much, much better to prevent pregnancies in the first place. Also you cannot argue that any individual will pay more in tax than was given to it's parent. It might end up on welfare and actually use more resources. But if you are interested in more debate on this I suggest you take it up on one of the abortion-related pages (see User:Earthland) rather than hammering it out here.  Lily ^{Inspirate me.} 05:05, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

I read an extremely good interview with one of the last guys in the US to perform these late-term abortions (the kind of guy who has to check his car for bombs every morning and has armed guards and bullet proof glass to protect him from the pro "life" movement). And he talked a lot about why it was done. These abnormalities aren't just a cleft lip, they're cleft heads. They're things where child birth is seriously dangerous to go through, while the abortion procedure he does is the considerably safer option. I do 100% with Lily that "those who put obstacles in the way of abortion probably contribute to more late-terms" - if you removed the stigma and let people go through it at the right time, then you wouldn't have to do this sort of thing unless it was an extreme emergency (that "cleft head" thing). But on the original answer, I'm not sure. A finanical incentive always makes things a hell of a lot more complicated, and you don't want people having kids just to get the money. I don't think it's a very good option, but if a government holds an ideology that "abortion is baaad, m'kay?" then they should start putting that money where their mouth is and pay up for forcing people to go 9 months of pregnancy plus whatever else an accidental child will cost someone. Or, more realistically, they put that money where it's needed, in education and prevention - but like fuck is that going to happen. ^pathetic 11:39, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

So, a healthy person who might be on welfare, versus a disabled person who will be on welfare. Which is cheaper?--Mustex (talk) 17:46, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

I remember the abortion doctor interview, I think it was a Guardian G2 article but I can't find it. About the financial thing it's probably only the poor who would be persuaded to carry a baby to full term solely for a government handout. So already they are starting with a disadvantage.  Lily ^{Inspirate me.} 11:58, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

Yes, it was probably in G2. But I think if you could be persuaded to carry a baby for a bit of cash, it's probably a sign you shouldn't be having children. Which sort of makes the entire concept lose-lose on all fronts, really. And you're right about such a thing only affecting the poorest, we have a society where the rich easily buy their way out of any problem - I can easily imagine there are far more abortions going on among the moralising middle-classes than anywhere else because you canpay for it to happen quietly and effectively. ^pathetic 17:56, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

I find the whole question absurd. Induced labor at 6 months? Who the fuck does that? ħuman 18:48, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

It was in response to something ScouseCaspaXS said. Basically, she thought that a woman should, at no point, be forced to carry a fetus, but if it was late enough that the fetus has a chance it should be delivered instead of aborted. (needless to say, my opinion on this doesn't apply to special circumstances, such as when the woman's life is in danger, and when the baby is horrifically deformed and doesn't have a chance). I freely admit that this isn't a common situation, but I still think its worth discussing.--Mustex (talk) 23:16, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

According to pro-life stats, 6 months is viable. Not particularly well viable, but apparently capable of surviving. However, it's worth noting that from the interview Lily and I was talking about, induced labour at that time is more dangerous than an abortion at that time for various procedural reasons. ^pathetic 22:09, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

Even when abortion was illegal in the UK the rich could get it done in Harley Street whilst the poor visited their local Vera Drake.  Lily ^{Inspirate me.} 01:03, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Excellent Poll

Well I laughed. –SuspectedReplicant retire me 14:39, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

'Twas funny, yes. ħuman 16:24, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Anyone ever been to Spain?

I'm going in July for study abroad and would love to know if anyone's been. Thanks! rational ghey (talk) 20:48, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

*insert bad Three Dog Night joke here* Secret Squirrel (talk) 20:50, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

I have been there. Educated wisest Hoover! 20:50, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

Bob M lives there. 21:00, 24 April 2010 (UTC) ^yummy &  ^honey_{(or marmalade)}

I do indeed live in Spain. But I've lived here too long to be able to answer questions in one-line stereotypes along the lines of "Spain is X" or "All Spaniards are Y" . But ... having said that ... what would you like to know?--Bob^{Spring is sprung!} 21:15, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

(But I'm just turning in .. so any answers may take a while.)--Bob^{Spring is sprung!} 21:17, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

In Spain you wear hats on your feet and hamburgers eat people. Aceⁱ⁹ 21:25, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

I've been. Well, Menorca if that counts. It was touristy. ^pathetic 23:03, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

I went to Ibiza last year just after I turned 18. I don't remember any of it, which meant it was fucking awesome. SJ ^Debaser 00:26, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Either it was awesome, or your drink was spiked on the first night and you were kept drugged in the room of a large spaniard called Camilo, who used you as a week-long sex toy. I guess that might also be awesome... Crundy^{Talk nerdy to me} 17:31, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

I took a leak over the border from France while spending a week sleeping on the beach a few years ago. Nutty Roux (talk) 00:38, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Barcelona, Figueras, Mallorca, Seville, Grenada, Denia. But only for holidays (vacations). Depends what you want to know.  Lily ^{Inspirate me.} 00:51, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

I too have been to Spain. On a number of occasions. Is that the only information you are seeking? DogP^{Marmite Patrol} 01:11, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

aside

This thread caused me to look at some Spanish stuff on WP:

“”a devotion to the traditional role of women in society, that is: loving child to her parents and brothers, faithful to her husband, residing with her family. Official propaganda confined her role to family care and motherhood. Immediately after the war the situation of women suddenly became adverse, because most progressive laws passed by the Republic were made void. Women could not become judges, or testify in trial. They could not become university professors. Their affairs and economy had to be managed by their father or by their husbands. Until the 1970s a woman could not have a bank account without a co-sign by her father or husband.

—wp:Francisco_Franco#Political_oppression

Remind anyone of anyone?

I was on the bummel around Europe in the 60's & avoided Spain like the plague. 01:25, 25 April 2010 (UTC) ^yummy &  ^honey_{(or marmalade)}

thanks!

So whats the culture like? I know its a fairly liberal country but im living in salamanca (near Portugal).. but I still feel anxiety about going to a new country and being gay doesnt really help. rational ghey (talk) 02:38, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

I think A Fistfull of Traveller's Cheques ought to cover it. It's every I know about Ibiza. Also, some people think John Lennon had sex with Brian Epstein there. ħuman 03:02, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

I just googled expat american spain and got a whole load (594,000) hits. Do thou likewise. 03:16, 25 April 2010 (UTC) ^yummy &  ^honey_{(or marmalade)}

How about going there, studying, enjoying yourself, but not getting off the plane shouting "I'm gay! I'm gay! Everybody look at me! I'm gay! Isn't that important? I'm gay I'm gay I'm gay!" - if you do that I'm sure you'll have a great time. (to answer your original question; yes, I have been to Spain). PS. One more thing: do you speak Spanish? DeltaStar_{Senior Sysop}^{Speciationspeed!} 20:22, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Being gay doesn't help? Well only if you want to flaunt your sexuality. Being straight doesn't help in some countries if you behave in a manner that offends local sensibilities. Trust me, you can have a good time in a foreign country even without sex or getting your tits out in public (metaphorically speaking, as I presume your male). There probably is a gay culture in Spain but it's not as obvious as in the US or UK. They do have a more macho culture and hetero is the accepted norm.  Lily ^{Inspirate me.} 10:10, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

I would suggest avoiding this conversation:

• You: Hi I'm Richard Gehay, and guess what? I'm gay!
• Some Spaniard: And what do you think of our find country Richard?
• You: It's great! I like the sun and the easy-going people. Are there any gay bars around here? (Because I'm gay you know.)
• Some Spaniard: Well the big cities may have some. I'm straight myself but, like most young people my age, I don't really care about your sexuality, and it's not necessary for you to talk about yours at every opportunity. Have you been to the beach yet?
• You: Are there a lot of gay people on the beach?
• Some Spaniard: There might be, I honestly wouldn't know.
• Well it's important to me. Did I mention I was gay?

Such a conversation might not be the best way to start.--Bob^{Spring is sprung!} 19:29, 26 April 2010 (UTC)--Bob^{Spring is sprung!} 19:29, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Foreign Office apologises for Pope 'condom' memo

A lowly civil servant "suggested the Pope be invited to open an abortion clinic and bless a gay marriage during September's visit." [1] He's been disciplined. 21:37, 24 April 2010 (UTC) ^yummy &  ^honey_{(or marmalade)}

BAHAHAHAHAHHA!!!! That guy should be fucking promoted. I wonder if they also suggested that he should meet personally with abuse victims while here. I'd be up for that. Either that, or we find where he's going an errect a giant billboard of a small child being buggered by a bishop - that would be fucking sweet. ^pathetic 21:57, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

PZ.s found it 23:16, 24 April 2010 (UTC) ^yummy &  ^honey_{(or marmalade)}

Why did I not have to click that to know what he was going to say? ^pathetic 23:20, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

He said: "This is appalling. You don't invite someone to your country and then disrespect them in this way". Did the UK invite him or did he just decide he wanted to come? Is this another reason not to vote for Gordon Brown?  Lily ^{Inspirate me.} 00:58, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

"The news of Pope Benedict's visit comes after Gordon Brown extended a formal invitation to the Pope during a private audience in February." http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8271556.stm alt (talk) 01:07, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

I doubt that Nick Clegg would have done that.  Lily ^{Inspirate me.} 01:39, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

He might if his (Catholic) wife had asked him to. 01:41, 25 April 2010 (UTC) ^yummy &  ^honey_{(or marmalade)}

I heard recently that though Clegg is an atheist his kids are raised as Catholics so as to not upset his wife.--Bob^{Spring is sprung!} 07:31, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

And he sends his kids to a CofE school, which is hypocritical according to the Daily Heil, you seemed not to notice that it's the church his wife's been at for several years... ^pathetic 12:17, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Hey! I base my knowledge on the Vote Now Show podcast--Bob^{Spring is sprung!} 19:20, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

This has really, really pissed me off. Yes, the memo was a piss-take (and a funny one!), but let's look at the suggestions that have caused this great offence

• Visit an abortion ward

Last I checked, abortion is completely legal and the majority respect the fact that it is a decision for the woman (and often her partner) and no-one else.

• Bless a gay marriage

Last I checked, gay marriage (or rather civil partnerships) are completely legal, and the majority couldn't give a flying fuck about it.

• Something about condoms

Erm, well, condoms eh? Now that's offensive! Fucking hell.

So many people seem to have missed the main issue that there's nothing offensive about these things, and that if some prick (or large bunch of pricks) as so backward that they disagree with three things that are completely normal in modern Britain then the problem is with the pricks in question. Fuck them all, and when I saw a senior Labour MP saying it was 'despicable' and 'vile' (the suggestions, not the pope's ridiculous views!), well, that's the final slither of Labour voter leaving this RWian. DeltaStar_{Senior Sysop}^{Speciationspeed!} 19:06, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

I agree. Add to Papal visit to the UK 2010. :-) --Bob^{Spring is sprung!} 19:17, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Oooh! He might not come! ^{Hat tip}. Threats like that really worry me, NOT. 19:34, 25 April 2010 (UTC) ^yummy &  ^honey_{(or marmalade)}

I agree with all the stuff that was in the "memo". However, working in the Foreign Office you are expected to be a little diplomatic.  Lily ^{Inspirate me.} 10:13, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Anzac Day

Happy Anzac Day to all the Aussies and New Zealanders. I am holding a little ceremony here tomorrow on the 25th. local VFW is having a rememberance session at the church. Hamster (talk) 04:09, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Why thank you. Aceⁱ⁹ 04:20, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Yes, happy whatever the fuck it is and all, you upside down people. Can template link to fun: article or some shite so those of us who "care" (as if) can know what we are drinking to? ħuman 04:33, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Fuck you, how would you feel if someone talked about 9/11 or Veteran's Day like that? - π 11:10, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Is rememberance day for the Australian and New Zealand Army Corp (ANZAC) WE dont discuss if Gallipoli was the greatest battle, biggest fuckup of the war or both. It was fought valiently and April 25 is the day its celebrated. LINKY oops fergot login again , is Hamster, ex Aussie now in the USA 67.72.98.45 (talk) 05:16, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Thanks! ħuman 15:10, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Everyone who dies for their country deserves to have their country pause and remember their sacrifice at least once a year. That's pretty sappy and maudlin, I know, but a soldier's blood is a sacred thing.--^talk 15:25, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

More than anyone else's? Educated wisest Hoover! 21:23, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Anyone who puts themselves on the line for others should be remembered, but soldiers do it professionally.--^talk 22:26, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

(EC)I'm a vegetarian pacifist hippie with hair down to my arse but I realise that without those soldiers fighting for us I wouldn't have the right to be. Remember them. Totnesmartin (talk) 21:24, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Agreed. This isn't some jingoistic claim that dulce et decorum est pro patria mori - just a way, once a year, of remembering those men and women who have died during wartime. I don't want to go as far as the slightly ghoulish way the media have to cover each memorial parade these days (BREAKING NEWS: Person dies in war!) but once a year isn't too much to ask. –SuspectedReplicant retire me 21:46, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Both sides, or only "ours"? ħuman 21:50, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

All the poor bastards getting their arses shot off. Even the pacifists go for that one - David Gerard (talk) 22:12, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

(It's worth keeping in mind in the present discussion that ANZAC Day commemorates a piece of blithering military incompetence.) - David Gerard (talk) 22:15, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

I sort of have a congenital problem with people who sign up to kill people. Can't get over it. "Young men die for old men's dreams, is that what we call wise?" (google it). If no young people could be convinced to sign up to kill other young people, the old fuckers couldn't play "chess" with regular people's lives. Not to detract from the tremendous sacrifices many have made in some wars to maintain western democracies... bumper sticker seen today "my son is fighting for your freedom" with USMC logo. Really? Is he? I think he's just a pawn in the oil wars, sorry. I seriously doubt what happens in Iraq or Afghanistan is even vaguely related to my freedom. ħuman 00:28, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

You know, that's something I respect. But then, I used to live in Halifax, home to possibly the world's largest monument to military obsolescence. --Kels (talk) 22:42, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

“”Ah, yes, the 'unalienable rights.' Each year someone quotes that magnificent poetry. Life? What 'right' to life has a man who is drowning in the Pacific? The ocean will not hearken to his cries. What 'right' to life has a man who must die if he is to save his children? If he chooses to save his own life, does he do so as a matter of 'right'? If two men are starving and cannibalism is the only alternative to death, which man's right is 'unalienable'? And is it 'right'? As to liberty, the heroes who signed that great document pledged themselves to buy liberty with their lives. Liberty is always unalienable; it must be redeemed regularly with the blood of patriots or it is always vanquished. Of all the so-called 'natural human rights' that have ever been invented, liberty is least likely to be cheap and is never free of cost. The noblest fate that a man can endure is to place his own mortal body between his loved home and the war's desolation.

—Robert A. Heinlein

That is all. --The Emperor _{Kneel before Zod!} 02:19, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

*applause* Tetronian ^{you're clueless} 02:47, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

No. I wasn't going to say anything, but since Human already went there I guess it can't hurt. Flame me if you want, but this must be said. When you become a soldier you are volunteering to murder people. This doesn't become OK just because it's approved by the government. To be completely clear, I don't think that being a soldier necessarily makes you evil - if acting without being aware of the implications was evil, we would all qualify - but the idea that people should be celebrated for this vocation is disgusting. Some soldiers are heroes, but it is not just because they are soldiers, and they could undoubtedly have done much more if they hadn't dedicated their lives to being told what to do. Call me a fanatic, but I think if someone intends to kill other people for their principles, it is sort of their duty to develop and criticize those principle for themselves, and not just pretend it is noble to accept things without questioning them. But I guess that's just the skeptical liberal in me talking. And finally, @theemperor - It's a good thing everyone decides exactly which state to support before joining an armed force, otherwise what you just said would have been pretty hollow. Mei (talk) 04:57, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

War is obviously a terrible thing, and military spending is usually a fine waste of money - but (at the risk of invoking Goodwin) I rather feel that it was necessary to fight the Second World War.--Bob^{Spring is sprung!} 09:40, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Dulce et decorum est. Which is not to say there's no such thing as a necessary war... --УФББДЯЇДИ^{Bend Sinister} 10:02, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

I'm not into all this fighting stuff but there was quote on the ex-servicemen's building in Oz that people do not deserve freedom if they are not prepared to defend it (or something like that). Let's not forget that most of the people who died in the service of our country did not volunteer, they were conscripted. Most of them were ordinary blokes who gave their lives fighting for what they considered was a just cause whether they wanted to or not. It's a sad fact that sometimes when you stand up to tyranny you have to be prepared to stand your ground.  Lily ^{Inspirate me.} 10:22, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

War is inevitable. Thats the nature of the, our, beast. It cannot be avoided and saying so may set loose a siren song of protest but the self must still be defended against those who have less forbearance. Aceⁱ⁹ 10:26, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

CP fork

Did anyone notice that TK also posted an ANZAC Day acknowledgement on MainPageRight? Using just the two flags as was posted in our holydaze template I presume that he copied the idea from here. Despite that at least he did something decent for once.  Lily ^{Inspirate me.} 11:18, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

is hard to forget Anzac day if there is an Australian anywhere atound. Perhaps he could have spell checked sacrafices but its the thought that counts. Hamster (talk) 15:25, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Doing it right

My niece, who's a 10th grader, comes to me for help with a project. Seems that in light of the discovery of Australopithecus sediba, they have to do a project on the coelacanth, the evolution of man and Archaeopterix. Having read about how Texas wants to go back to the dark ages, it made me kinda proud that a tatty little 3rd world country is teaching things properly. --PsyGremlinPrata! 11:12, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

That is because as a third world country you can't afford to have those that will get an education wasting it. Only the wealthy can afford idiots. - π 11:16, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Well said, Pi. RagTop^{Gone sailing} 11:35, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Aside: it's not like all of the US is backward when it comes to evolution. Some communities are highly religious and take issue with it, but the rest of the country accepts that evolution is taught in schools even if they don't believe in it. Tetronian ^{you're clueless} 13:54, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

In my experience it's not the religious per se who have an issue with evolution. Most Catholic countries openly teach evolution and old-Earth viewpoints it's the fundie evangelicals who insist that every word in the Bible is true and therefore insist on a 6000-years Earth. I don't have a lot of time for the Catholic Church but they at least take a more pragmatic approach than trying to twist their world view into knots so as to accommodate this one "fact". As most of the protestant fundies originated in the US (or moved there) they probably get a bigger shout than they are entitled to because of the dominance of American media. Why little Catholic Andy Schlafly went down this route is a mystery.  Lily ^{Inspirate me.} 00:42, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

We do like to think that the Europe-centred Catholic Church is all progressive and accepting, and indeed, compared to evangelical Christianity in the US and most Islamic countries, it is. But let's not forget that it took until recently to do it. It was 1996 when John Paul II fully affirmed what his predecessor suggested in 1950 (three years before Watson and Crick found the structure of DNA, so evolution and genetics were taking off and well established at this point) and the current Pope may be leaning towards intelligent design rather than theistic evolution. And it was again the 90s when they got around to accepting Galileo's views. Although they're slightly faster now, as they've just forgiven The Beatles for saying they were bigger than Jesus - although that might just be back rubbing ahead of the state visit. ^pathetic 08:29, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

I don't deny that the record of the Catholic church is poor but a friend who visited Mexico said that in a rinky-dink town the local museum which was filled with fossils explained it all in old Earth evolutionary terms and there were several classes of local primary school children taking lessons there. Most of the Filipinas who work in our hospital are Catholic but accept evolution.  Lily ^{Inspirate me.} 10:29, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Living in a supposedly Catholic country it quickly became apparent to me that there is a difference between what the Catholic Church believes and what average Catholics believe. I only know one professing catholic who believes that the church is right on birth control in general and right on condoms in particular. I've spoken to a catholic priest who said, "That's just another one of the Pope's stupid ideas". I had a student who went to a catholic school and was told by a nun: "Obviously Christ had a human father and the idea Mary was inseminated by God is just a myth." To be fair, I'm talking about smart people with university level educations and I'm sure that there are a lot of people with other views though. The one "fundamentalist catholic" I do know is member of Opus Dei who seem to the the Catholic Church's version of the Taliban.--Bob^{Spring is sprung!} 19:16, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

I think you're hitting on the real underlying point that it's not so much to do with different beliefs as different types of believers. There's the kind that says "oh, that part, I don't take it seriously, it's a myth or whatever, I can ignore it if I like because I can think" - that's fine by me, quite cool in fact because if you can select the ideas from those presented to you and even synthesise them into new ones, it shows a remarkable degree of intelligence. On the other hand, we have people like that tit on Question Time a few weeks ago who said something along the lines of "well, I think homosexuality is fine, but my religion says otherwise so I have to believe that..." I mean, what an idiot. So there's clearly cognitive dissonance involved, and only two ways out of it; 1) you drop the dogma and synthesise your own interpretation, which can include becoming non-religious to merely dropping the idea of literalism in the holy texts and calling bullshit when you see it or 2) let faith shit all over reality to quash that mean old dissonance down and go all out fundie. And thus, we see the dichotomy between sensible and moronic emerge. Although that model does put moderate believers and non-believers in the same boat which some would consider a little wrong. ^pathetic 02:53, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Black Writer says Teaparty Racism/Violence is a falsehood

Smoking some good ganja?--Thanatos (talk) 21:20, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Glenn Beck lives up to Liberty U's standards

See here. Does Falwell Jr. know that major Christian organizations have problems with what Beck says, or that he tells parents not to send their kids to college?--Thanatos (talk) 21:24, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Or better yet, does he know the guy's a mormon?--Mustex (talk) 23:24, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

for christ sake LEAVE mormon alone :-(. i'm mormon and i don't consider Glenn to be a true mormon .Waronstupidity (talk) 00:15, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Can't get blocked by Nuclearnight

For those of you not familiar with NN, she's a batshit crazy pseudo-feminist who thinks that sexism will end when porn is illegal, and that she's the only non-racist white person. I consider being blocked by her channel a mark of honor, so I made this video requesting that i be blocked: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tQ2APR6oQs , yet she's refusing me (figured that she wouldn't think it was worth it to not block me out of contempt). Any tips on how I can push her over the edge (I know I win either way, since I can still comment on her videos, but still would rather be blocked than not blocked.--Mustex (talk) 23:20, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Nothing against you or anyone else, Mustex, but I think what you just said is a microcosm for what's wrong with the whole so-called "culture war" between religion and the "New Atheism": it is a battle for attention, not a search for truth. You just said that you would rather be blocked (causing the Youtuber in question to make themselves look bad) than have a chance to rebut said person's views. Isn't that sad? It's only a difference of degree away from Ken DeMeyer's obsession with Google rankings, as if the number of Google hits that an article gets is somehow a momentous achievement or insightful argument. Tetronian ^{you're clueless} 23:52, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

EC (somehow) - relevant link Mei (talk) 23:58, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Oh, I'm going to refute her too, and I've been posting such arguments on her videos, but lots of people have already done it far better than me. Honestly, I consider her less worthy of attention than James the Preacher and NephilimFree. But, youtubers I respect have been blocked, and I want to be in their category. At least I sense real conviction from them. From her, all I get is a whiny, self-important brat, who knows she doesn't live in the real world, but doesn't care (if she doesn't block me soon I'm going to do a response to her video on racism, where she basically proves herself a hypocrite by complaining about white people who think they know more about racism than black people).--Mustex (talk) 00:35, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

i tried to argue Rationally with her and she didn't respond.Waronstupidity (talk) 00:40, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Did you ever stop to think that she's just ignoring you? ħuman 00:41, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

If she's ignoring me, why has she posted on my channel three times in the last six hours, saying she won't block me.--Mustex (talk) 02:23, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

maybe but it would be stupid seeing that i tried MY BEST not to insult her and worked hard on my argument.

if you could read it you would shit brick. Waronstupidity (talk) 00:43, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Yes sometime Waronstupidity can be smart and sometime i do make sense, really Waronstupidity (talk) 00:44, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Okay, I've never really engaged with the phenomenon of people with their own YT channel before, but, man, what a stupid and shitty thing--they want me to sit there and listen to them drone on and say "like" and "y'know" and take eight minutes out of my life to consume as much information as I could by reading a well-written blog post in three minutes? Fuck that noise. P-Foster (talk) 01:08, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

What P Foster said. Right on! It's a hellish way to communicate, especially with the inarticulate.--Bob^{Spring is sprung!} 09:35, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Well, depends who you're watching. Some have a decent charisma that comes across, others put some effort into their production making it worth watching. Kind of like comparing a blog written in the hideously dry style of Wikipedia with a blog written in the considerably less dry, if not, anti-dry and postively soaking style of Cracked.com. Sometimes it's worth taking the extra time out of your life for it. ^pathetic 02:44, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Thunderf00t gets angry

Really, really angry. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEvwfvRpqCA&playnext_from=TL&videos=C4mYcxbo_o4&feature=sub I really don't know how to feel about this.Ryantherebel (talk) 01:12, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Who is thunderf00t? Waronstupidity (talk) 01:36, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Who is Thunderf00t? Why, I think we have a whole article on him. Yes, we do! Gooniepunk2010 ^{Oi! Oi! Oi!} 02:10, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Or, alternatively, I believe there is this newfangled thing called Google... Tetronian ^{you're clueless} 02:42, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

WARONSTUPIDITY, THUNDERF00T DIED FOR YOUR SINS, YOU UNGRATEFUL BASTARD!--Mustex (talk) 05:47, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

That's not him at his angriest. You want to see the ones against that twat-bag Dan Brown, although he did later make a vid when he was in a better mood apologising for it. ^pathetic 07:28, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Actually, having got to the end of that, maybe yeah he's a bit angry. ^pathetic 07:33, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Oh come on. Dan Brown is just a fantasy writer, I'm surprised that people take his stuff seriously. And while I admit that his writing style is not great and his plots a bit formulaic he does tell a pacey and absorbing story. Fine for a bit of light holiday reading over half a dozen rum and cokes.  Lily ^{Inspirate me.} 10:43, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Wrong Dan Brown. Educated wisest Hoover! 16:32, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘Copyright claimed by Viacom. [[User:K61824|]][[User_talk:K61824|]] 21:12, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

So today i was praying for your poor damned soul

And no one answered me... why god didn't amswer me! i though he liked me! Waronstupidity (talk) 03:47, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Yawn....Keegscee (talk) 04:34, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

"Then I say to you [that] Gawd is dead!!!!" - From Arthur Miller's The Crucible The Spikey Punk ^{I'm punking my punk!} 04:48, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

- actually from [2] Mei (talk) 05:02, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

I also like MORE WEIGHT Mei (talk) 05:09, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

I think we can all agree that Giles Corry is by far the best character in The Crucible. Gooniepunk2010 ^{Oi! Oi! Oi!} 05:17, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Definitely. Mei (talk) 05:31, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

I had to read the Crucible in high school. In an essay I wrote about it I vaguely remember referred to Abigail as "cunning," "devious," and a "slapper." (British word for whore.) SJ ^Debaser 09:55, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

I think we can all relate to this...

Comic P-Foster (talk) 04:42, 26 April 2010 (UTC).

Gawd knows I get that feeling when I read CONservapedia. Especially if it's something Assfly, Ken, or Ed did. Punky ^{Your mental puke relief} 05:08, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

This has some good points. --Ravenhull (talk) 03:36, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Sleep paralysis

Anyone have much personal experience with this phenomenon? Particularly interested in the sensory aspects of it beyond the mere paralysis. I am particularly interested in some neural modeling hypothesis about it, particularly as it might relate to dysregulation of proprioception. The "sense of a presence" is an odd phenomenon, and might be explainable as the normal proprioception some how becoming external. But it gets more complicated as people report being able to apply cognition, intentionality even gender to the presence. It is "focused" on you, it has attention, and its universally malevolent "pure evil." What the heck is going on here? I would be interested in any experiences anyone might have had. I have been trying to purposefully induce it and have some luck but only the paralysis part. I get the "awake but can't move" thing but I can't seem to tap into the sensory hallucinations or "abject terror" so often associated with it. tmtoulouse 05:57, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

You take too many interesting drugs... ħuman 06:07, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Trent, I'm off to bed, but send me an e-mail reminding me to get back to you, I may have something you'll find interesting...P-Foster (talk) 06:17, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

I used to experience this quite a lot, but now only occasionally. It was frightening when I didn't know what it was, but once I read about it it stopped being so horrifying. Sometimes however I seem to be both dreaming, awake and immobile and a bad thing is happening in the dream, the conscious part of me knows that I've got to break sleep paralysis in order to "wake up". It really takes a hell of a lot of effort and sometimes the muscle of the limb I move hurts from the effort. I also experience "lucid dreams" - but in that case you've got to make an effort not to move! More later If you're interested.Bob^{Spring is sprung!} 06:33, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

I'm not sure if I've actually experienced it - i.e., "awake but can't move" - or just suffered a really fucked up dream due to a bout of illness. It kind of felt like I was in a dream but so tired I couldn't actually bring myself out of it, which is both unusual and scary because I can do that fairly effectively as I lucid dream fairly regularly. I've also had a dream that I was convinced was real for a couple of days and even with hindsight what I was seeing was a perfect representation of where I was at the time, so it wasn't a case of "oh, of course it was a dream, it looked nothing like my house even though I thought it was at the time". So given that, I can't tell if my sleep paralysis experience was me actually awake (and viewing the real world while paralysed) or asleep (and viewing just a very accurate picture while my head went mental). I can't really recall any other specifics that would be of help though, but should it happen any time soon I'll let you know. ^pathetic 07:25, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

I experienced it once for a few seconds, it is not fun. Afterwards, when I could move again, and sure there were not things moving around me (I remember lights even though it was dark, 3 I think, not bright more sort of shadow lights) I realized that it was sleep paralysis. - π 08:34, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

When I was very young, I had this. I didn't really have a focused presence thing so much as the abject terror. I did get the awake but paralysed thing later, but I haven't experienced it in years. -- Yossarian^{The Man from the USSR} 09:19, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

I find the concept very interesting. There are a few documentaries on the subject. What creeps me out is the similarity of sleep paralysis experiences. The succubus "old witch" presence and the "dark man" are commonly reported across all spectrum. A curious happening. I have had the frozen sensation and other weird things take place (bed shaking and sleep walking) but not as severe as real sufferers. Aceⁱ⁹ 09:43, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

I used to get this quite regularly, although I have not experienced it for a good few years now. It was very scary at first, as I would still be vividly dreaming about something happening within my bedroom. Often it involved some kind of intruder(s) in my room (from alien monsters to to Ben Elton - really), and I would be awake, but experiencing a very real 'dream' and unable to move. After a while I realised that all I had to do to make it stop was to switch on my bedside light, but this was a huge struggle. It sounds really weird, but I was able to abstract away so I'd be lying there thinking "Fucking hell, here we go again. Why can't I reach that fucking lightswitch so this episode will be over and I can get on with a night's sleep". As I said, I no longer get this, but I do sometimes get extremely vivid dreams (or even hallucinations, as when I'm in this 'mode' as soon as I close my eyes it starts) which can be somewhat disturbing. This usually happens when I'm sobering up after a few days on the booze, I've heard it refered to as 'getting the electric dreams'. Hope this helps and people don't think I'm a weirdo. DeltaStar_{Senior Sysop}^{Speciationspeed!} 15:04, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

I dont know much about it but there was an article that said at a point in the sleep cycle , your brain disconnects from concious motor control of the body. This seemed to be a protection so you dont move during a dream phase and hurt yourself. This motor control should re-establish itself without you noticing. A sleep study would be good if its a recurring problem. That would identify if you are actually awake and unable to move , or dreaming that you are .. etc. A neurologist would likely be the person to ask or your family Doctor to start with. Hamster (talk) 17:20, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Yes on the sleep paralysis and yes on the lucid dream thingy. Not so much about terror and presences but maybe thats because it happens so often (compared to other people) that I've got used to it. So I am more: "oh, it's this again".

However here one experience: First off, one thing to keep in mind is that if I do get sleep paralysis while falling asleep (doesn't only happen when you wake up), then it almost assured to be able to turn that into a lucid dream. Another thing to keep in mind is that lucid dreaming isn't so much as being in a holodeck, rather simply being "your normal self" aware in a world you can't control. However often you can make "suggestions" interacting with the content. I have noticed that often lucid dreams have something to do with the last subject I was thinking when awake. Finally, a third thing to keep in mind is that little Sen was never afraid of "monsters under the bed / ghosts" etc. I was an atheist/sceptic as far as I remember. On the other hand I had once seen a "documentary" regarding alien abductions which had terrified me (you can see where this is going no?), especially an interview with a guy who said that first he work up in the middle of the night paralyzed, and then was taken up the ship etc etc. Come some years then and a sleep paralysis event happens, and at that point I happened to remember about that interview for a moment but shrugged it off. Realizing that I am getting lucid, I start thinking about castles (hey, I had to think of something) in order to try to control the scenery a bit and suddenly: Bam, Grey Aliens, because "the last thought before falling asleep" was guess what.

Conclusion: Lucid Dream of Alien Abduction and seeing that "childhood fear" played out startled me so much that I kept feeling feeling paralyzed and unable to wake up. (for a while) So basically I self-abducted myself in very nice and vivid detail. Hows that for "entities"? :P Sen (talk) 01:12, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

"I have noticed that often lucid dreams have something to do with the last subject I was thinking when awake." That's why I think of sex as I drift off. I also have what I call "building dreams", a continuing series that mixes up many buildings I have interacted with into one great big place, sort of. Including fiction. They are fairly consistent, ie, the same weird shit from one dream to the next. For instance, in one version I have some waterfront property at the end of where I live now. The fucked up chimney is an old standard, as are the holes/gaps in the walls in some rooms. But you all knew that already. ħuman 02:45, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Building stuff? ^pathetic 02:56, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Had a bout of sleep paralysis a few days ago, the alarm clock went off, but I physically could not move to turn it off for what I would estimate was 15 seconds. My body just would not respond at all, then I could move again. I didn't have any terrors or anything else, though. ĴάΛäšςǍ₰ Banhammer, Renamer, and Goat 03:07, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Thanks everyone for the very interesting responses and feedback. I have become increasingly interested in examining cognition from angles where normal rational and mundane experience breaks down for "normal" people. A lot of focus has been put on cognition changes and breakdowns of the more permanent type, but there are many incidents where normal fully functioning people with no significant psychological diagnoses have major, temporary, disruptions in cognition. With sleep paralysis the "paralysis" is interesting but fairly easily understood aspect of REM sleep. But the cognitive breakdown is not so easily understood.

This whole idea that we have some sort of mild sensory modality for detecting "presence" of other people is interesting. The question is whether that really is the case. We clearly have proprioception of our own body, and there is some interesting research that shows that can be disrupted. For example, transcranial magnetic stimulation against posterior areas of the temporal lobe known to be involved in proprioception will cause participants to report the sensation that there is someone else in the room, behind them or to the site. Most interesting is that they almost universally report that it is malevolent in nature. This sides well with a lot of the reports from sleep paralysis. Disruption of proprioception could fit in the model. This becomes particularly interesting because it suggests that the feeling of the presence comes first and that the hallucinations are the brain trying to make sense of that perception in a half-dream state. Bayesian cognition in your dreams? Perhaps...

The most interesting aspect of both the TMS research and sleep paralysis is the seeming ability for people to assign qualities to the perceived presence. It often has a gender, and not only does it have intentionality (malevolent, evil) but it has attention (it seems focused on the subject). Very, very strange. Is this some sort of predatory/prey type adaptation like I have talked about with pattern recognition? Maybe...

I really wish I could have more luck purposefully inducing this. I have been working on it for a week. Usually early morning a few hours before I would normally get up I have a lot of success introducing brief bouts of the paralysis. About 10-15 seconds, I get a bit panicky towards the end but nothing like some people describe, and I have had never had any of the sensory hallucinations or illusions. Maybe I am being to cognitive about the whole thing. One interesting side effect of playing around with it though is that it has drastically increased the incidents of lucid dreaming. I get them now and then but they are usually short and not very clear. Today I had my first ever fully lucid dream where I felt completely cognitive about the situation and had near perfect control over the dream. I decided to fly....why is that what everyone always wants to do? It lasted a good long while too, and I have full memory of it.

This should also be of interest to some more general issues that RW is interested in. Sleep paralysis illusions and hallucinations are probably at the root of many, many mythologies and monsters. And disruption of proprioception as a means to explain sensations of presences, even with attentional and motivational characteristics could explain a host of other phenomenon. I also think some of this might be relatable back to differences in dopamine regulation in the dorsal striatum. Massive dysregulation is clearly involved in positive symptomatology of schizophrenia. However, there is clearly differences in the more normal populations as well.

My recent behavioural work in the lab used a schizotypal personality questionnaire on psychology undergraduates and found a wide spread of scores in this population. More interesting than that we were able to correlate higher scores in cognitive-perceptual effects with behavioural tasks with a known sensitivity to dopamine levels. People have naturally different endogenous dopamine levels, and this lead to significant differences in cognitive proccessing.

My models of the dopamine system link it to motivational salience and probability assessment. Higher levels of dopamine lead to an higher abundance of type II errors when processing environmental and cognitive noise. Ideally, it would be really interesting to show that peoples beliefs in fringe ideas, paranormal, woo, quack medicine, what-have-you is related to large levels of dopamine and larger scores in disruption of cognitive-perceptual effects.

Coming back to sleep paralysis, I think the frontal lobe is primarily responsible for "damping down" salience effects of the striatum by being able to process direct sensory information and mix it with context. The classic example is that we don't need to be afraid of a rubber snake. The frontal lobe function is greatly diminished in REM sleep, and still even during sleep paralysis stages. I think this leads to a hyperinflation of the effects of lower brain regions. So the pons-adrenal system is allowed to run unchecked producing what amounts to a basic animal terror of overwhelming threat. And heightened salience of cognitive noise or environmental noise as being interpreted as something with incentive salience. So general audio white noise, whether random neuronal firing, or the sounds of your ceiling fan are perceived as having incentive salience because of a lack of frontal lobe inhibition. This salience has to be explained somehow, and when mixed with the pons-adrenal system running away with itself things get interpreted as threats. The illusion and hallucinations are emergent properties of the continuation of dream like REM sleep being overlaid on the brain going haywire with salience cues.

Teasing this all apart is not easy, but I think there are some interesting pieces to this puzzle to be found in half-sleep states, whether lucid dreaming, or sleep paralysis, sleep terrors or what-have-you. Personal accounts and experiences really help to understand this stuff because I just can't seem to replicate in my own mind. Ah well, here is hoping aliens come abduct me tonight. tmtoulouse 20:12, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Personally I am still not over that whole "sleeping" and "dreaming" thing. I mean, am I the only one that finds it rather amazing that the entire humans population occasionally falls into a mini-coma-thingy, it's conciousness essentially destroyed without even being able to tell when exactly that happens and on top of that, generates mini-trips as well? And the processing power that reveals! I mean, I have spend a good chunk of my time waiting in front of computers to complete some "ray tracing" and "global illumination" calculations, and I can't help but look at dreams and think "wow, that's some good real time shadow maps here". We are talking "realistic" lighting calculations, parallax movement calculations & pespective for the background, "random" folliage generation, bucketloads of textures and shaders, physics simulation (aka, when swinging from a bar, pushing doors/water with realistic mass, flying through the air with "realistic" momentum). I do realize that the brain probably doesn't actually "simulate" things rather makes a patchwork out of memories, but still, that's some procedural generation there. Interestingly mirrors are almost always screwed up or lead to screwed up results. Sen (talk) 21:36, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Elsewhere on RationalWiki

I know that WIGO:CP is the main point of interest here but I just read WIGO:Blogs and discovered this excellent piece about "Black Tea Parties". Just thought I should spread it round a little.  Lily ^{Inspirate me.} 11:45, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Mike Malloy is reading it right now. ħuman 02:37, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Facebook

Try this.

As discussed elsewhere, the RW Facebook group is now up and running. Don't all rush at once. Totnesmartin (talk) 17:49, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

I are there (the cute one, in case anybody cares). --PsyGremlinSermā! 17:56, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Oh wait... we're trying to attract members, right? Ok, ignore the cute bit. --PsyGremlinSprich! 17:56, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

<old fart warning> Explain facebook groups & stuff to me please</ofw> I got a facebook thing yonks ago but forgot my name & password. 18:25, 26 April 2010 (UTC) ^Contribs_Talk

That link isn't going anywhere for me. ħuman 18:31, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Works fine from here. Is your piece of string taut enough? Totnesmartin (talk) 18:34, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

I advise you to update the logo. Professor Moriarty 18:35, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Shouldn't it link to RW somewhere? ħuman 18:39, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, I created it in a spare five minutes between cakes. I'll go and evolve it now. Trent, Psygremlin and Kels are now admins. Totnesmartin (talk) 18:43, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Post it up to the evo group. As they borked the connections to the server (and the repercussions appear to still be going) they can at least bring some traffic to the FB group. It's likely more people who are "based" (i.e., don't have the imagination to find an internet community outside of the one prescribed to them) there would join the group and perhaps eventually be brought over to contributing. Just a thought. ^pathetic 19:35, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

I'd rather people found it by themselves, rather than have a load of people who join whatever group is put in front of them. Totnesmartin (talk) 19:46, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Good idea.--Bob^{Spring is sprung!} 19:53, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Well, I've joined (after going through all my old emails to find my name & pwd). Now tell me what does it do that we can't do here? 20:05, 26 April 2010 (UTC) ^Contribs_Talk

Normally I would agree with you Totnesmartin, if the Facebook group was an "end in of itself." But the goal I think is to try and capitalize a bit on the current facebook interest and produce perhaps recruitment to the RW site itself. So if the group is promotional in nature, it might worth whoring the link out a bit for now. tmtoulouse 20:11, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for putting the link in. What is this "wonky thinking" to which it refers? ħuman 20:13, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

And to bitch about the site being down, of course. ^pathetic 20:21, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

feel free to spam other groups, I only "own" the group in as far as I started it, I'm not going to control what people can or can't do, or I wouldn't be handing out adminships. Incidentally if anyone wants to be an admin there but I don't recognise your name (eg Armondikov or Ace McWicked) then email me from here. Totnesmartin (talk) 21:00, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Joined and commented about everyone being old farts. Kettle o' fish

(or however many colons it is) "wonky thinking" covers all pseudoscience, bad arguments and logical errors. I like it, although there's a possible confusion with wonk. Change it if you like. and the brain pic. Totnesmartin (talk) 21:13, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, I changed it to our mission statement, basically. Why does arsebook not have "preview"? ħuman 02:33, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

My RWW sense is tingling. Professor Moriarty 21:19, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Is that thing still going? Totnesmartin (talk) 21:28, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Yes, and you've just set up a massive data mine. Professor Moriarty 21:31, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

I think I'll be scrupulous. Professor Moriarty 21:39, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

You'll have to. RWW can't use it per its own rules. Bwahahahaa! Totnesmartin (talk) 21:44, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Poll

Interesting poll about Americans' economic views. I figured it was interesting enough to post here. Tetronian ^{you're clueless} 20:12, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Definitely. ħuman 20:18, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

60% is much lower than I'd have guessed. Totnesmartin (talk) 21:15, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Also 76% of investors favour capitalism? I suppose there are non-capitalist investors but I hadn't imagined there were so many in the US. Looking at the numbers I suspect that they may have been convinced by "Obama is a socialist" rhetoric, and then thought "Hey, socialism isn't that bad." But I'm sure that a US native can set me straight. --Bob^{Spring is sprung!} 21:33, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

The other 24% lost everything they had in either the Reagan/Bush depression or the Bush II depression. They aren't so thrilled. ħuman 02:27, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Let's also not forget the part where it says that most Americans don't know that "capitalism" = "free enterprise system," which in my mind means that a lot of respondents aren't that knowledgeable. Tetronian ^{you're clueless} 02:29, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

But they aren't the same thing. ħuman 02:46, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

(EC) There is a line of thought, not that I necessarily agree with it, that capitalism exists by the grace of the government, in such things as legal recognition of corporate personhood, protectionism of some industries against others, and foreign policy aimed at defending certain corporate interest (i.e., oil.) Interesting that only 60% say capitalism is better than socialism, but if the question is reworded to whether they prefer a free market economy or a government managed economy the percent preferring free market goes up to 77%. Only 35% believe the two are the same thing. Secret Squirrel (talk) 02:49, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

What does that picture remind me of?

Clangers, anyone? 20:14, 26 April 2010 (UTC) ^Contribs_Talk

Are they searching for ice or blue string soup? Totnesmartin (talk) 21:18, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Aw! Toasty just sent me on a 30-year nostalgia trip with one word. I used to love the Clangers. PsyGremlinSiarad! 18:05, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

And so they found Noah's Ark. Again.

But I only have news articles written in Cantonese. If you got links in English, please post them. This time, it seems to come with Wood! [[User:K61824|]][[User_talk:K61824|]] 21:17, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Google translator does a good job of it, but I'm wondering if this is, in fact, a rehash of the original hoax story. Quite often newspapers will do that and get confused, and a language barrier can only add to that (remember when one in China reported The Onion?). ^pathetic 21:42, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Aussies sound a bit skeptical. Šţěŗĭļė scroll 23:06, 26 April 2010 (UTC) Add: Dutch pics look fuzzy. Šţěŗĭļė scroll 23:08, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

http://rationalwiki.com/wiki/RationalWiki_talk:What_is_going_on_at_ASK%3F#THE_ARK.21

Fake News has the story, along with all the other fair and balanced news items about why Obama is wrong on, eh, everything. DogP^{Marmite Patrol} 16:03, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Meme Poster

How many can you name?. Crundy^{Talk nerdy to me} 12:29, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Okay, there's House with a Darwin Fish lapel, he's standing in front of a box of signed xkcd books, xkcd appearing several times with a raptor shadow in the background and a ball-pit to the right. There's ceiling cat looking in over proceedings while Pedo Bear cautiously eyes up David Caruso taking off his sunglasses and putting them back on again so fast it looks like he's a in a quantum superposition where they're both on and off at the same time. The FSM is crawling through the ceiling and seems to be reaching for a snake, but it's not, however, on a plane. The narwhal is wearing Magical Trevor's hat, and the TV suggests that there are over 9000 memes in that picture, so good luck finding them all. ^pathetic 15:10, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

The IPU, DFTT sign and hypnotoad. [[User:K61824|]][[User_talk:K61824|]] 17:16, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

The guy with the bag over his head appears to be wearing Chuck Taylors. ħuman 17:33, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

"snake, but's not, however, on a plane"? Like this? Sen (talk) 20:21, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Marriage is for making babies...

Me heartie Tom be runnin' fer.... eugh I cannot keep that voice up. Anyway, a friend of mine lost a bet and is now running for MP. Last night was the hustings and I only wish I had a video of it because - and this is what accidentally got him elected last time he tried this - he's quite competent and witty on occasion. So when one candidate went on an anti gay marriage screed, saying something like "marriage should be for making babies" and the Mad Cap'n responds with "[http://blog.madcapntom.co.uk/hustings-report-i-be-kickin-arse-an-takin-nam will ye be makin' couples take fertility tests first, then?". Which is a pretty good response I think! ^pathetic 15:05, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Yup, a very good response. Good luck to him. --^{Ask me about our oak} 20:50, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Insanity

My last of exam of the year is tomorrow, and after that I just have some coursework hand-ins next week. I'm going a bit insane over the formulas I need for the exam - lots of electronic stuff. Entertain me, minions. SJ ^Debaser 16:41, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

That's new. Back in the day when I need to take exams they list all the equations for us, let us take an aid sheet, or they have open book exams (of course that usually means the difficulty of the exam is adjusted accordingly). [[User:K61824|]][[User_talk:K61824|]] 17:09, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

That didn't help at all. SJ ^Debaser 17:48, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

One time I let a monkry take notes for me in class. All day long I'd sit there with my mind a complete blank while the monkey scribbled things on little pieces of paper. Then, at the end of the week the teacher asked us to write a term paper based on our notes. This is what I wrote.eek eek I'm a monkey can I have a banana The teacher gave me an "F." When I got home and told my Mom about it she said "I told you to never trust a monkey!" The end. ^Me!Sheesh!_Mine! 19:33, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

dont forget Ohms law , thats all I remember, the name Ohm. that and how to measure the resistance of a resistor after you burnt off the markings trying to solder it onto something else. Just remembered , capacitors, especially big ones, are pure evil, dont touch them. you are welcome. Hamster (talk) 19:50, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Thank you and thank you. I haven't trusted monkeys since the great Tottenham Monkey Uprising of 1995. And Ohm's law is by far the easiest thing I have to remember. V = IR. Such a happy equation. SJ ^Debaser 20:01, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

To pass time, you could try hooking up an electrolytic capacitor using the wrong polarity. Anything in the uF range is pretty boring, but if you get something that is a few mF or even a 1F cap, well, watch out. Keegscee (talk) 22:25, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Just remember - "One over two pi, root L C, is the resonant free-quen-ceeee!". Since an instructor sang that little ditty, I've never forgotten that formula. (Never really had to use it much, unfortunately) DeltaStar_{Senior Sysop}^{Speciationspeed!} 22:31, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Nobs being a knob again

Nobs emailed me a troublemaking rant to try to get me to take action against RationalWiki on Wikipedia. I forwarded it to the functionaries list for their digestion. Anyone else getting this sort of thing? I can post a copy here if anyone cares - David Gerard (talk) 22:36, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, post it on up. He's been trying to get people to unblock him here, so it'd be (ever-so-slightly) interesting to see what he's bitching about. DeltaStar_{Senior Sysop}^{Speciationspeed!} 22:40, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

It's probably not a good idea to post a private email without Rob's permission. -- Nx / talk 22:44, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

He was asking me to take action as an administrator on Wikipedia with a list of evidence as to why I should; public action for private reasons isn't considered a good excuse on Wikipedia. But yeah, I'll offer to post it to the Wikipedia talk page for Conservapedia instead - David Gerard (talk) 22:47, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

As far as I understand, correspondence belongs to the recipient--it's DG's property and his to do with as he pleases. Redacting real names/e-mail addys is good manners, though...P-Foster (talk) 22:46, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

It's rightly considered questionable and possibly very rude, though, in the general case - David Gerard (talk) 22:47, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

This should do the job nicely - David Gerard (talk) 22:52, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

I wonder why he chose you ... unless he sent the email to Jimbo and everyone else in the WP cabal. -- Nx / talk 22:55, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

I can't believe he's still at it. Or maybe I can. Šţěŗĭļė scroll 22:56, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

I would be very amused if this if Rob gets blocked over there for this. It's got a serious crossing the line vibe about it. --Kels (talk) 22:58, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Just post the thing Dave. If Rob wants public action, then surely his reasons for this should be public. DeltaStar_{Senior Sysop}^{Speciationspeed!} 23:04, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Actually, posting it here would probably constitute acting properly in the dispute at Wikipedia. And I am a public face of Wikipedia (I go on telly and all), so letting my pissed-off side run rampant would not be the helpful response - David Gerard (talk) 23:08, 27 April 2010 (UTC)