Conservapedia talk:What is going on at CP?/Archive104

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, (new)(back)

RIP BRichtigen

TK permabans him for arguing against the teenager achievements nonsense -- Nx ^talk 06:06, 4 January 2009 (EST)

I was about to paste that in. I love the reason: (insistence on last wordism: argue, argue, argue. See CP Guidelines) despite the fact that he hasn't edited since 27 Dec. Me 06:14, 4 January 2009 (EST)

and yet another CPer who seemed to know something about maths bites the dust. How long until WilliamBeason gets shown the door? After all, with Ed and Foxtrot there, we don' need no steenkeen ekspurts. --PsyGremlin_Whut? 06:17, 4 January 2009 (EST)

No.	editor	blocks & unblocks	blocks	unblocks
1	AmesG	50	29	21
2	Fox	38	22	16
3	BRichtigen	32	20	12
4	HelpJazz	31	18	13
5	Kektklik	29	20	9
6	NathanG	27	16	11
7	Iduan	26	15	11
8	DinsdaleP	26	16	10
9	TK	25	14	11
10	Palmd001	21	12	9

As he was there only for a couple of months, this is really impressive. LArron 09:29, 4 January 2009 (EST)

You know it's Sunday when...

...it's Slafessay time. (If anybody wants to improve on that word, you're welcome.)--PsyGremlin_Whut? 10:07, 4 January 2009 (EST)

"2. Passages relating to HELL!!!!1!!" Yeah, that's just what a depressed person who have lost their faith would want to hear about. Andrew Schlafly: Clueless about practical theology. Not ready to lead. --AKjeldsen^{Cum dissensie} 10:17, 4 January 2009 (EST)

[EC] Aww, Hell only got the number two spot? Kirkburn  talk  contr   10:18, 4 January 2009 (EST)

It's the good ol' deserters will be shot approach to leadership. --Robledo 11:37, 4 January 2009 (EST)

Hell got bumped to #3 by the raising of Lazarus, a "particulary powerful passage". Perdition! PS, don't have a list of these Sunday post-worship pukings to add this to? ħuman 16:41, 4 January 2009 (EST)

This? I reckon this may deserve a place in the list, hasn't been updated in a while. -Redback^G'day 16:46, 4 January 2009 (EST)

Yup, that's it. Thanks! ħuman 17:10, 4 January 2009 (EST)

Sock-burning

Own up. Генгис^{Is the Pope a Catholic?} 11:48, 4 January 2009 (EST)

Not I. Hasn't ron been around for a while?-caius (ninja) 13:47, 4 January 2009 (EST)

He has. And with a Mooslim name, too. I think RonAbdul is a real person — just a dumb one. And he's been around a short enough time that it's conceivable he wouldn't know to read RationalWiki on his days off. He might really not know what happened to Bugler. --Marty 15:35, 4 January 2009 (EST)

"Fantastic Blocks"

Not sure it's wigo-able given that we've seen this all before, but KotomiT has spent the few days of her sysopship making hundreds of edits, mainly admin stuff like moves, categorising etc but also mediating disputes. Which aspect of her contributions does Andy notice? Fantastic blocks! alt 13:08, 4 January 2009 (EST)

Well, it's their most important job innit. God forbid she starts to do something like... think. --PsyGremlin_Whut? 13:20, 4 January 2009 (EST)

Andy doesn't really understand the job of a sysop, beyond blocking. Pretty much everything about maintaining a wiki he's had other people cover for him. --Kels 13:28, 4 January 2009 (EST)

For that matter, do the sysops understand the job of a sysop? When last did any of those goons actually knuckle down and do some admin on their blog? Besides Smeg Ed deleting stuff he doesn't understand, of course. --PsyGremlin_Whut? 13:48, 4 January 2009 (EST)

Kotomi, as above. Tim, to a decent degree. Phil too, but less so. Pretty much all the "names" in the sysop ranks right now except Kotomi don't actually do much to help the wiki, mostly they just bully n00bz and add to the overall blogness. --Kels 13:53, 4 January 2009 (EST)

That new Addison sysop dude also did a bunch of page moves yesterday or so. --Sid 14:56, 4 January 2009 (EST)

Reagan

Added Reagan link to the most recent WIGO since his first political office was governor of California as best I can find. Idiots over there worship him after all. EternalCritic 13:50, 4 January 2009 (EST)

We had an incompetent one-termer here in NH, former businessman millionaire, etc. Romney in MA never held office before. I suspect it happens a lot... I bet Jeb Bush's first office was gov of FL? ħuman 16:53, 4 January 2009 (EST)

Nelson and Winthrop Rockefeller (NY/AR) were also governors as their first elected office. Now I should find some Dem. examples ;) ħuman 16:56, 4 January 2009 (EST)

That shouldn't be too hard. Ted Kennedy, for one, got his senate seat gift-wrapped and handed to him by JFK without ever holding office before. Radioactive afikomen ^{Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments.} 17:03, 4 January 2009 (EST)

Yup. Now, about governors... When it comes down to it, there's this weird caste of people (business people, and politically connected people) who try to start at the top - governor, senator, etc., instead of state rep, dog catcher, etc. And we can all whine about them (as CP did), but name recognition goes a long way. If we're doing Senators, Hillary held no previous office, either. ħuman 21:41, 4 January 2009 (EST)

Perhaps we should create an article? "People who leapt to the highest levels of elected office with no prior electoral experience"? (Wow, what a crappy title!) ħuman 21:43, 4 January 2009 (EST)

Thanks Ken, can we have Human back now, please? --PsyGremlin_Whut? 04:49, 5 January 2009 (EST)

"Gentlemen in another state who leapt to the highest levels of elected office with no prior experience as regards to being elected to elected office before the election in question"? ħuman 14:55, 5 January 2009 (EST)

See also: cp:Franken_Syndrome hahahahaha. ħuman 14:18, 7 January 2009 (EST)

Jesus and guns

Now we know. Jesus is pro guns! EddyP 13:52, 4 January 2009 (EST)

Makes sense, perhaps if he had a gun they wouldn't have caught him. Hang on, seriously Andy, what the hell? Please do be explaining how the people who wrote the bible knew about gun control. -Redback^G'day 14:11, 4 January 2009 (EST)

Ken's comment is hilarious, as he sort of forgets what he's talking about and goes off on a tangent about car manufacturers. --Kels 14:25, 4 January 2009 (EST)

Skyping with Ken? Wow. I'd love to do that. What do you need to send a skype call to someone? An email address? DickTurpis 14:29, 4 January 2009 (EST)

You can use Skype as a regular chat thing like Yahoo or MSN too, but I rarely use it at all. I got it because someone wanted to use it to collaborate on a project, then never called with it. Although I'm guessing that Skyping with Ken would be a painful experience, and PJR probably begged off to save the shredded remains of his sanity. --Kels 14:37, 4 January 2009 (EST)

Dick: here Toast 14:55, 4 January 2009 (EST)

I've actually used Skype a number of times, but only with one friend, and I don't think I had to do anything but answer when he called. I was just wondering how to find someone. I guess if I had an email address for Ken, I could add him to my contact list and hope he answers when I call. Don't think I'll be doing that. DickTurpis 16:10, 4 January 2009 (EST)

Ken: Gun control is foolish. -- Nx ^talk 18:15, 4 January 2009 (EST)

Somehow he manages to segue from that to banning sex on TV because people will be careless at gas stations or something. Ken. Meds. Now. --Kels 18:22, 4 January 2009 (EST)

He realized he shouldn't oppose Andy on this matter and is trying to salvage the situation by blaming the media -- Nx ^talk 18:27, 4 January 2009 (EST)

Actually, he seems to be trying to incorporate the TV thing into whatever the hell his point was. But on a related note, 0.o --Kels 20:23, 4 January 2009 (EST)

Did anyone notice this?

TKEd defend two of Bugler's rather obvious essays... JessicaT adds delete tags to start an AfD discussion. TKEd decide to ignore the AfD discussions and do whatever the hell they damn well please, moving one to essay space, and claiming the other one contains no parody. Nobody else on CP can see this?

In the mean time, the AfDs are completely obliterated (I think TKEd removed it from the database completely, unless someone else can find it?). JazzMan 15:27, 4 January 2009 (EST)

The Seventies is still in mainspace; TK just removed the essay tag from it. So these two articles have come through unscathed. I'm finding it a real playground now that all the people who actually read other people's articles are gone; look for your favorite oldies to make reappearances! --Marty 15:47, 4 January 2009 (EST) Hi Jinx! Hi Sideways!

The most intelligent article on CP

Burnt. Nice try, but we saw what you did thar.

Here. [1] ^{— Unsigned, by: EddyP / talk / contribs}

Wow. AddisonDM, I take my hat off to you're genius. It's like a lower-class version of WIGO:CP hosted on CP itself. --Marty 15:52, 4 January 2009 (EST) COULD USE MOAR HITLER, THOUGH

Has anyone saw the talk page of AddisonDM? There was a picture made by dots, and their background color changed, about a man's anus, but Assfly burned it [2].--Kangaxx 17:30, 4 January 2009 (EST)

Very creative. They haven't burned See the Conservapedia article on sheep.

yet, if you're that interested -- Nx talk 17:34, 4 January 2009 (EST)

Wow, that would be the most incredible wandalism EVAR!! --Kels 17:35, 4 January 2009 (EST)

I can't see it! It keeps timing out. NOOOOOO! Norseman^{Cyser Melomel} 18:18, 4 January 2009 (EST)

Goatse. 'nuff said. --PsyGremlin_Whut? 18:23, 4 January 2009 (EST)

I love the way he's added TK's dirty little secrets for all to see again. --PsyGremlin_Whut? 17:37, 4 January 2009 (EST)

You mean this? Yeah, TK is going to have a fuckin' stroke when he sees that...I'm going out for dinner--make sure to screencap however this bit of weirdness plays out...TheoryOfPractice 17:43, 4 January 2009 (EST)

Are those chat-log screenshots really TK? Matt oblong 17:46, 4 January 2009 (EST)

Yup. No doubt about it. --Kels 17:56, 4 January 2009 (EST)

It is, and I guarantee that once someone sniffs out that they are reposted, they'll disappear again. Aboriginal Noise ^{Oh, what a lovely tea party!} 17:57, 4 January 2009 (EST)

Who captured them? I had a look around to try and find details but couldn't? Is there anywhere explaining the whole thing?@Matt oblong 17:58, 4 January 2009 (EST)

They're probably around somewhere, I'm just not sure where the page ended up. Basically this is a chat he had with another CP sysop who's since left the fold, not long before TK exposed the SDG stuff and basically betrayed Andy's trust in a huge way. I'm sure some others can fill in the details better, but that's a bit of it. Lots of us who were around at the time got chats and emails from him of a similar nature. --Kels 18:10, 4 January 2009 (EST)

And it's gone --PsyGremlin_Whut? 18:32, 4 January 2009 (EST)

Did anybody get a screenshot of Addison's essay? FernoKlump^{Mr. Assfly! Don't forget about this petition!} 18:53, 4 January 2009 (EST)

Sans your parthian shot, here -- Nx ^talk 19:00, 4 January 2009 (EST)

The essay in its entirety can be seen here. It gets chopped off at the edge, but the part that runs off-screen can be seen in FK's parthian shot. I started working toward getting the entire shot in there, but in the end it made the file too large. -Redback^G'day 19:10, 4 January 2009 (EST)

I updated the wigo link. Could someone delete my version? Thanks -- Nx ^talk 19:16, 4 January 2009 (EST)

S'not a problem. -Redback^G'day 19:36, 4 January 2009 (EST)

I emailed Addison yesterday about TK and included those screenshots... I wonder if that is what prompted the essay. FernoKlump^{Mr. Assfly! Don't forget about this petition!} 19:18, 4 January 2009 (EST)

Interesting, Andy approved it? FernoKlump^{Mr. Assfly! Don't forget about this petition!} 19:22, 4 January 2009 (EST)

OVERRIDE!! Also, educational value ROTFLMAO -- Nx ^talk 19:48, 4 January 2009 (EST)

- "due to its enormous importance and educational value". OK then. This sounds like an open invite to provide as many examples of moronic vandalism as possible. Weaseloid^{Methinks it is a Weasel} 19:51, 4 January 2009 (EST)

Anyone have any idea how they could see this as a good idea? It's like they are telling people who would like to vandalize that they will adverise their efforts if they get a big reaction. It's the Hall of Fame of Vandals. Patrickr 19:54, 4 January 2009 (EST)

Personally, I looked at that comment by Andy and got the distinct impression that he's enjoying watching TK squirm for a bit. Andy may be a truly profound idiot, but he's also got a very vindictive and nasty streak. Methinks he hasn't totally forgotten about TK's involvement with the SDG. --Kels 20:20, 4 January 2009 (EST)

I want to see someone post Bugler's, MexMax's, JJacob's, and Samwell's blocks of the admins listed, as well as Bugler's contribs for parody. The funniest part is they feel that a drop-down block reason constitutes the truth in vandals - call 'em a liberal vandal, and that's the proof! Norseman^{Cyser Melomel} 22:12, 4 January 2009 (EST)

Yeah, I don't get this page. It goes completely against CP M.O., which was, burn all evidence of dissent. I just feel like we've won... or, vandalism has become more rewarding for those that do it.-caius (ninja) 23:26, 4 January 2009 (EST)

Profanity FTW

What exactly does JY23 think "FTW" stands for? Something profane apparently. Weaseloid^{Methinks it is a Weasel} 15:50, 4 January 2009 (EST)

Obviously, "f-cks the world". It's pretty clear from context, wouldn't you say? :) --Marty 15:53, 4 January 2009 (EST)

Also, it is WTF backwards. Suggestive if nothing else. ^{— Unsigned, by: 72.218.143.252 / talk / contribs}

I always understood it as 'Fear The Worst'. Guess I'm wrong. StarFish 03:15, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Ack . . . the proper expansion is "For The Win" as in Goatse for the win!

Materialist YEC

From the PJR-as-Liberal WIGO, Andy says, "If one is drawn to YEC for materialism reasons, then that person will tend to be materialistic on other matters..." Now correct me if I'm wrong, but how would you believe a magic, invisible old man with detachable personalities created the world by magic 6000 years ago in a materialistic way? --Kels 17:52, 4 January 2009 (EST)

I think you misunderstand "materialism reasons" (I'm not the best english speaker, but is that correct??). I think it means, that you declare that you beleive in YEC, so you can get money, or other materialistic rewards.--Kangaxx 18:00, 4 January 2009 (EST)

No, Andy linked that to the CP definition of materialism, which they seem to confuse with atheism. In fact, it seems to classify economics as a form of spiritualism. --Kels 18:07, 4 January 2009 (EST)

In that case shame on me trying to implant logic into Andy's speech --Kangaxx 18:13, 4 January 2009 (EST)

I wouldn't take it for granted that he actually checked what the article said before he linked to it. --AKjeldsen^{Cum dissensie} 18:21, 4 January 2009 (EST)

I was assuming he meant that if you were believed in a young Earth because you're one of the wackos who think that geological evidence supports a young rather than old earth, then you believe it for materialistic reasons. Whereas if you take the "Jesus says so" approach, you do it out of non-materialistic faith, which is better. Of course, PJR does it for both reasons, and so does Andy, so it's a stupid thing to say. But then again, so is everything out of Andy's mouth. DickTurpis 19:12, 4 January 2009 (EST)

Of course, you'd have to be a religious whacko to misinterpret geological evidence to that degree. There's really no way to do that by accident. --Kels 20:18, 4 January 2009 (EST)

Wow. ħuman 21:50, 4 January 2009 (EST)

Surely you're familiar with flood geology. DickTurpis 22:19, 4 January 2009 (EST)

I just can't see any way of starting from the evidence end and reaching the conclusion that the Bible is literally true on those terms without starting by assuming the Bible as literally true. It requires twisting far too much. --Kels 23:19, 4 January 2009 (EST)

"It requires twisting far too much" I love it when you talk dirty to me... or, wait... not me, someone else. Still love it. ħuman 00:00, 5 January 2009 (EST)

"without starting by assuming the Bible as literally true."

^---You just answered your own question, there. Start with the desired conclusion, then select the 'facts' that will let you work backwards to it. (Lots of people do that, the Creationists are just more blatant than some.) And since the whole POINT of Creationism is that God created the world as seen in The Bible, an Atheist Creationist would be an...interesting bit of doublethink. --Gulik 04:09, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Three years at undergraduate level and flood geology wasn't mentioned once. Генгис^{Is the Pope a Catholic?} 19:08, 5 January 2009 (EST)

I think you should sue your university for not giving you a complete education on all aspects of geology. - User$=$ $\pi$ 19:42, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Teach the controversy! --Kels 19:56, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Ken and TK - unstoppable force, meet immovable object

Should it be "Seventies" or "The Seventies"? I don't know! How do Ken and TK try to figure it out? Wheel War! --Sid 18:54, 4 January 2009 (EST)

If there was more than one "Seventies", that's good. If it's singular, "The Seventies" should be correct. Not that these two will let Liberal Grammar get in the way of their Truthiness... --Gulik 19:01, 4 January 2009 (EST)

Someone simply must use a throwaway sock to create cp:Liberal Grammar. You know that rule about no ending sentences with prepositions? And 'whom'? LIBERAL LIES. - Gentleman Publius (V)<,",>(V) 19:06, 4 January 2009 (EST)

And asking questions with three question marks (???) is liberal grammar. Norseman^{Cyser Melomel} 22:31, 4 January 2009 (EST)

TK told me once that not capitalizing every Noun is simply a Liberal Trick to sneak Globalism into our School Curriculum. JazzMan 01:46, 5 January 2009 (EST)

WIGO voting breaking

It might be "just me", but twice now in recent history the arrows have gone away. Now, it might be that some other site borked my java, but still. Also, lots of red "img" tags worry me (unless Pi is in the middle of running the bot?) ħuman 21:47, 4 January 2009 (EST)

Disappearing arrows and red tags are because people aren't setting up the vote tag properly. It is <vote poll=WIGO####>Something from CP</vote> people. Also the bot doesn't like you linking via the [[cp:Page]] ,also doesn't like the http://www.conservapedia.com/User_talk:Aschlafly#Stupid_section. Diff links are much better. - User$=$ $\pi$ 23:28, 4 January 2009 (EST)

OK, thanks. Still, the arrows came back when I rebooted, etc. Of course, in the meantime, you might have cleaned up the mess... ħuman 23:57, 4 January 2009 (EST)

I vote down all WIGOs that cause me troubles. - User$=$ $\pi$ 00:00, 5 January 2009 (EST)

When you say "the bot doesn't like" [[cp:Page]] links, you just mean that the bot won't try to screenshot pages linked that way, right? (Also, I hope the bot doesn't try to screenshot external links to non-CP sites, such as Google searches or Wikipedia articles. The bot should be trying to screenshot only CP pages, and only when they are in the form of diffs or particular revisions. Also, the bot should be able to handle a link such as this.) People have said at least twice now that the bot "doesn't like" X or isn't happy with X, which to me means something more serious than just "the bot will ignore X".

IOW, I think the take-home message here is not "Never use cp:Page links or links to specific sections", but merely "If you do for whatever reason use cp:Page links or links to specific sections, do not expect the bot to screencap them for you." Am I right? --Marty 00:44, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Actually the bot screencaps everything wrong as it miscounts links. It is RIRO. - User$=$ $\pi$ 00:47, 5 January 2009 (EST)

I'd like to apologize for trying to use the cpu template-link. I didn't know it messed the bot up. By the way, what does "RIRO" mean? Radioactive afikomen ^{Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments.} 01:41, 5 January 2009 (EST)

That's okay it just showed up about 5 times in the last few days. RIRO is an old computer term, rubbish-in rubbish-out. If you don't stick things in the way a computer likes, it doesn't give you the results you want. - User$=$ $\pi$ 01:44, 5 January 2009 (EST)

"Old computer term"? Like, UNIVAC old? : ) Radioactive afikomen ^{Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments.} 01:48, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Older. - User$=$ $\pi$ 01:50, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Wow, you just dated yourself horribly with that. So you were born in, what, the 1850s? : ) Radioactive afikomen ^{Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments.} 02:09, 5 January 2009 (EST)

I am inherently embedded in Euclidean geometry. - User$=$ $\pi$ 02:14, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Wouldn't that make you a god? Radioactive afikomen ^{Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments.} 02:18, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Well I am transcendental. - User$=$ $\pi$ 02:22, 5 January 2009 (EST)

It was always GIGO (GARBAGE) when I was a young 'un. Me 02:20, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Maybe that is where WIGO comes from? - User$=$ $\pi$ 02:24, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Must be an Australianism - User$=$ $\pi$ 02:28, 5 January 2009 (EST)

As a backronym, Wikipedia in, Garbage out works quite well as a description for Conservapaedia. --JeevesMkII 03:45, 5 January 2009 (EST)

: D Radioactive afikomen ^{Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments.} 03:50, 5 January 2009 (EST)

(unindent) Nice. I also noticed that using the "nowiki" tag around a template doesn't seem to work in the vote listings. I tried putting nowiki around the double-curly-braces, but that only makes the template name show up, not the whole thing. --Gulik 04:16, 5 January 2009 (EST)

We learn ourselves in the process (from wigo)

"We learn ourselves in the process"

That is lovely. A single comma would make it "English", or, at least, "American". Without it, it is teh delightful. ^{— Unsigned, by: Human / talk / contribs} 22:46, 4 January 2009 (EST)

I noticed that myself.... I was gonna make a snarky comment along the lines of "I stumbled upon a porn website once, and I learned myself in the process." But I decided to take the high road..... but I've now decided to take the low, and now I'll get to Scotland before ye. SirChuckB^{Call the FBI} 23:52, 4 January 2009 (EST)

Judges: namespace?

cp:Category:Colors has an incoming link from cp:Judges:Learn togethertally. What other pages are in the Judges: namespace, and has anyone ever seen any of those pages? Are there any other "hidden" namespaces on CP? (How about on WP?) Just curious. --Marty 01:14, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Judges are left over from the contests. There are also the teams' namespaces and the non-secret Sysop namespace. - User$=$ $\pi$

See here: here. If you scroll to the bottom, you'll see the judges etc have access to namespaces 120 up (namespaces above 100 are user defined.) Me 01:29, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Also, those namespaces aren't accessible on wiki, but they can be queried and read with the appropriate URL. I forgot what it was, and who told me this, but it wasn't a hack, it's just the way MediaWiki works: "invisible" namespaces aren't invisible, they're just hard to get to. Anyways, long story short someone read the judges namespace a long time ago and it was boring. Ditto the short-lived Sysop namespace.-caius (ninja) 01:46, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Here you go, read them all. - User$=$ $\pi$ 01:55, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Heh, I was just about to point that out, too... and then I started fixing them up. Ah, such is work on a wiki. Radioactive afikomen ^{Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments.} 02:04, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Since you asked on Wikipedia: There's no hidden namespaces in WP (though there's "hidden" off-wiki areas, like the OTRS and various mailing lists that are closed to the public, for various reasons). You can see a list of all namespaces in the Special:Allpages dropdown box in all MediaWiki sites. Here, too! --wwwwolf (barks/growls) 04:46, 5 January 2009 (EST)

sigh

[3] Me 02:25, 5 January 2009 (EST)

It is hard to work out which is worse, his graphic design skills or his people skills. - User$=$ $\pi$ 02:35, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Is this new? I could have sworn he's had it on his userpage for ages. Why share it now? --Arcan ¡ollǝɥ 02:45, 5 January 2009 (EST)

He says he has a seekrit reason for doing these things he does, and that the Assfly fully approves. I can't imagine what it is, except possibly for amusing those of us here in the peanut gallery. --JeevesMkII 03:18, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Therapy? Me 03:26, 5 January 2009 (EST)

It's Ken trying to insert a Youtube video into a template. Генгис^{Is the Pope a Catholic?} 19:15, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Prevert

Uncle Ed writes an article two sentences on one of them preverts. --Marty 02:55, 5 January 2009 (EST)

"an first year student". This fuckknuckle teaches writing??!! --PsyGremlin_Whut? 03:06, 5 January 2009 (EST)

I feel so sorry for his students. --Gulik 04:28, 5 January 2009 (EST)

I don't believe he has any. From his descriptions, his whole teaching career seems to consist of a creepy old man putting cheaply printed fliers though people's letter boxes. --JeevesMkII 04:34, 5 January 2009 (EST)

TK never forgets

TK on a whim decides to block AKjeldsen (last edit, several months ago) for reasons best known to himself. I guess TK isn't a guy who forgets grudges. --JeevesMkII 07:44, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Awww. :-( And just when I was about to contribute some good, solid conservative material. Well, so it goes. --AKjeldsen^{Cum dissensie} 13:34, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Waitaminute. Now being retired from CP is a blockable offence? What a hypocrite. Weaseloid^{Methinks it is a Weasel} 13:41, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Well, I think Henry only unblocked AK in order to allow him to contribute to the Danish Writing Group thing, and as far as I could tell, he never went to any of the meetings. So... ħuman 15:07, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Hey, I contributed. Under a moderate amount of duress, to be sure, but I contributed. At least until Andy's continued slurs against honourary Dane Leif Eriksson drove me to reconsider my membership. --AKjeldsen^{Cum dissensie} 15:51, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Go Ed!

Smeg Ed's at the maths again. --PsyGremlin_Whut? 07:56, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Perhaps, he was included in this mail / Parthian shot.... LArron 08:08, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Lovely, Ed, just lovely:

All fractions can be expressed as decimals, and vice versa. If the denominator is not a power of ten, you get a repeating decimal or repeating fraction. You can round it off, or use a vertical line over the repeating digits.

1/3 = 0.33 (rounded to two digts)

Ever heard of 1/2? Or 1/4? Oh, that's higher math, I suppose :-) LArron 08:14, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Pendantically speakin', those repeat, too. (1/2 = 0.5000000...) ħuman 15:09, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Yes, pedantically $1/10=.0{\overline {9}}$, too. But, generally, ${\frac {1}{2^{n}5^{m}}},n,m\in \mathbb {N} _{0}$ terminate. LArron 15:27, 5 January 2009 (EST)

"The digit 3 repeats indefinitely, so if you need more precision you can write 0.33333 or whatever." - ...or whatever? *bashes head against table* Just to be certain: Ed is not a parodist, right? --AlanS 08:41, 5 January 2009 (EST)

"A decimal, like a fraction, is a way to express numbers smaller than 1." How do they think non-integer rationals greater than 1 are expressed? Phantom Hoover 09:08, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Is Ed also contributing to a Californian teen girl wiki encyclopaedia as well as Conservapedia, and sometimes getting the two mixed up? I mean first liveblogging teen movies, now adding "like, whatever" to the end of his articles. It's like he's totally clueless. Now, lets all go liveblog sporadicus. --JeevesMkII 09:55, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Nice, Ed cleans the drop-menu for the reason of blocks, erasing Aschlafly's latest favorite insistence on last wordism. Most important to Uncle Ed: Refusing admin instructions LArron 10:10, 5 January 2009 (EST)

It seems that this may have been the impetus for the new block reason. We all knew sysops could unilaterally make up rules, but it's almost nice to see it codified. --Arcan ¡ollǝɥ 10:46, 5 January 2009 (EST)

(EC) Now I've seen everything. That's some impressive work. Must be parody. It must be. I mean, even if the guy can't understand maths at all he must surely know that a wiki is designed so that people who do know more can contribute while those who don't know can learn from it. Ooops. Sorry, that's elitism. ArmondikoV^sshole 10:13, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Oh, haven't you heard? Expertise is LIBERAL. The proper, Conservative way is be pig ignorant and spout off anyway. --JeevesMkII 10:16, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Oh, ho! This is great. Nothing says "come edit here" like unwelcoming people. Way to go smeg Ed. You're a really swell guy. --JeevesMkII 10:19, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Well, RW has the unwelcome template and I've seen comments struck out a few times, but at least the RW:unwelcome template has a bit of constructive text rather than your basic "go f**k yourself" attitude. ArmondikoV^sshole 10:26, 5 January 2009 (EST)

We only use the unwelcome when people's first edits are offensive or pointless vandalism. Reasons for unwelcoming at CP? Because the user puts up a userbox on their own page within the first few edits. [4] Weaseloid^{Methinks it is a Weasel} 10:52, 5 January 2009 (EST)

(ec) The best part is the piddly reason for its first use: "[user] lied about being new to wikis: copied a userbox in first few contribs" and the resulting infinite block. Ed never ceases to amaze. --Arcan ¡ollǝɥ 10:53, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Not to mention the infinite bannination that goes along with the unwelcoming. I guess "benefit of the doubt" isn't in Ed's vocabulary. --JeevesMkII 10:55, 5 January 2009 (EST)

I didn't realise she was banned for it. That's incredible. She only said she was "rather new to wikis". Apparently being able to copy & paste templates from somebody else's page makes her a liar about that. Weaseloid^{Methinks it is a Weasel} 11:04, 5 January 2009 (EST)

When you're Ed Poor, copying and pasting must seem like a herculean task that may only be accomplished by god and/or Dennis M. Ritchie, who may or may not be the same person. --JeevesMkII 11:09, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Ouch. And to think how many newbies I've seen in Wikipedia who treated their user pages as MySpace, with bazillion userboxes... Our response has generally been "That's nice, but could you stop doing that and contribute to the articles too?"... failing that, a MfD, at worst, salt it. --wwwwolf (barks/growls) 15:54, 5 January 2009 (EST)

<unindent>Ah, Ed's in a capricious mood (as if he could be any other way). What a toad. --Yossie^{Spring in Fialta} 00:09, 8 January 2009 (EST)

Sheriff TK

Nice phrasing. Is this tacit permission to start using the phrase "..and the horse you rode in on." ? Worm ^{(t | c)} 08:31, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Sharif Sheriff don't like it...mock the TK, mock the TK. --Yossie^{Spring in Fialta} 08:51, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Great. Now every time I see Teacake post I'm going to be hearing wa-wa-wa-wa-wa-waa-waa-waa. --PsyGremlin_Whut? 08:57, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Then my work here is done, good sir. By order of the prophet/We ban that wandal sound/Degenerate the faithful/With that crazy rati'nal sound. --Yossie^{Spring in Fialta} 09:05, 5 January 2009 (EST)

The Good, The Bad, and The TK. :D Norseman^{Cyser Melomel} 09:19, 5 January 2009 (EST)

TK is more like Eli Wallach in The Magnificent Seven than Eli Wallach in TGTBATU, but he is ugly on the inside, so I can't really complain. :D --Yossie^{Spring in Fialta} 09:29, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Possibly more like this kind of sheriff. Weaseloid^{Methinks it is a Weasel} 10:40, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Nope. THIS is the only sheriff that TK can come close to emulating...TheoryOfPractice 10:46, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Amateurs. --Kels 19:41, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Ah reckon that Tonkey Kong needs t'be taken to Missouri.DSFARGEG 10:52, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Man, you guys don't understand YouTube links on the word "Sheriff" at all! Let me demonstrate... Sheriff. Sheriff. Okay, done. --Marty 00:00, 6 January 2009 (EST)

WillE

I'm probably asking to get the joke spoiled by explaining it but, what's inappropriate or vulgar about WillE? NightFlare 12:19, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Penis --Arcan ¡ollǝɥ 12:21, 5 January 2009 (EST)

It's a bit like Nautius Maximus or Biggus Dickus. ("Willy", also known as "Tadger", "John Thomas", "Old Man", or cock)--Toffeeman 12:22, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Thank you. NightFlare 12:28, 5 January 2009 (EST)

I see Mistress T is getting in to the sysop swing of things. Soon she'll be toadying, blocking and power abusing just like her illustrious predecessors like Learn Together. --JeevesMkII 12:32, 5 January 2009 (EST)

I refuse to believe that! >_< Norseman^{Cyser Melomel} 13:04, 5 January 2009 (EST)

You mean you can't picture her in leather jackboots, brandishing a whip? /evil mode off --PsyGremlin_Whut? 13:38, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Is she really Asian or just living in Japan? Never mind I'm going to just imagine my hot asian dominatrix anyways :) --BoredCPer 17:55, 5 January 2009 (EST)

(EC)Like Rick Astley's song goes, "...so do I!" NightFlare 13:41, 5 January 2009 (EST)

That is one seriously grumpy Kotomi we have today. --PsyGremlin_Whut? 14:30, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Not bad. The more people she chases off, the more CP withers. Proving once again that we Liberal Parodists can't do half as much damage to CP as the True Believers can. --Gulik 15:22, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Never in my illustrious career have I ever seen a Vaguely Penis-shaped User Name Formation. I've seen not-so-suggestive user names. I've seen user names so blatantly pr0nish that the snow melts. But this is one of the most clear-cut cases of "dirtiness is where you see it" that I've ever seen! --wwwwolf (barks/growls) 16:22, 5 January 2009 (EST)

At least she has a sense of humor: "JessicaT ... blocked BarackHusseinObama ... ‎ (Please recreate your account with your real first name and last initial: Sorry Mr President)" ħuman 16:40, 5 January 2009 (EST)

PJR - Setting the record straight

A little while back I wrote a short piece describing why I thought PJR, although a likeable fellow, and his ideology were dangerous.

While he doesn't want a debate by proxy here, I offered and he accepted for me to post objections he has to what I said. These are, in paraphrased form, interspersed with my original below.

Personally I like the guy too. He's probably one of these people who is difficult to dislike whatever his views. His apparent reasonableness, his politeness, his thoroughness, his sense of fairplay.... all these are endearing qualities. **He didn't disagree with that!**

But, and this is a big but, his theology is dangerous. Not so much his YEC on its own - that's an intellectual position at odds with the secular world and the overwhelming majority of mainstream Christian theology - but how his theology would impact on politics and power. **He denies that YEC is at odds with the overwhelming majority of Christian theology but even if it was that is only true for the last century or so.**

PJR fundamentally absolutely believes that his religion, nay, his take on religion, is the only one that is true. **He claims that most people think that of their beliefs.** All others are deviants or opposites of this. He knows that everyone who is not aligned pretty closely with his faith will perish. **He feels that's over-stating it. For example, one doesn't haven't be a YEC to be a Christian who will be saved.** If you don't believe the Bible to be literally 100% true, then you don't really believe in anything at all and will spend an eternity regretting it. **Quote: "I don't believe the Bible to be literally 100% true. I acknowledge the existence of euphemisms, parables, poetic language, metaphor, and etc." **

I imagine he sees it as his God-given duty to evangelise his beliefs. And, if he had the power to do so, his evangelism would be forceful. He has admitted as much. **He strongly objects to my claim that it would be forceful because one cannot force a belief.**

He would install a theocracy based on his brand of Christianity. He would support the expansion of that theocracy across the world. **He denies he would support a theocracy, rather that he would support the government openly admitting the existence of God as a fact.**

It would mean the end of all science that contradicts YEC. **He would not ban that research but would be minded to reduce or stop any government funding of it.** It would mean an end to religious freedom. **He claims it would not and repeated that belief has to be free not forced.** It would mean the total outlawing of things like homosexuality, abortion, divorce, pornography, blasphemy, inappropriate dress, sex outside wedlock, and a host of other things. **He states that he hasn't given much thought to the hypothetical situation of "him being in charge" so has no real views on these except that each case would be dealt with on its merits and not as black and white as I suggested. As an example, he doesn't necessarily agree that homosexuality should be totally illegal - rather it shouldn't be accepted as being OK.** (And, for those used to Aschlafly's brand of Christianity, there would probably be no capital punishment, guns or water-boarding either.) **He has no objection to capital punishment in those cases that are beyond doubt and intentional. He hasn't given much thought to gun control or torture and so doesn't have a particularly strong view on them.** And there would be a lot of war.

This wouldn't be a power trip. This is not about social control as it is for the likes of Aschlafly.

This is about saving eternal souls. And our petty worldly differences and suffering pale into insignificance.

PJR, if you're reading this, I apologise if I've got this wrong. But that's the way it comes across to me. Ajkgordon 05:29, 11 December 2008 (EST)

Again, he doesn't want a remote control debate so I won't repeat my replies to his objections. You can probably guess what they are. Ajkgordon 13:07, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Since I'm sure he's reading this: PJR, let me back on CP and I'll happily debate you until one of the other members of the Goon Squad bans me. There's no point to arguing in email, since I doubt you can convince me, and I know I can't convince you, but in a public forum, we can show off for the crowds. --Gulik 15:26, 5 January 2009 (EST)

TerryH and dark matter

I couldn't help but be reminded about this Chick tract:

NightFlare 14:04, 5 January 2009 (EST)

As I believe PZ Meyers has pointed out, "Goddidit!" is not a useful scientific hypothesis. --Gulik 15:24, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Also, (in ref to the Chick panel), wouldn't we then fall through the hole he should have in his hand? --Just sayin' CЯacke® 16:27, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Technically, crucifixions victims had their wrists nailed, not their hands. It'd be pretty hard to hold a galaxy in your hand with an injury like that though. Norseman^{Cyser Melomel} 17:07, 5 January 2009 (EST)

CP: A statistical analysis of the first and the second years' growth, accomplishments, and major contributors.

Well, Ed Poor never ushered a writing assignment, but I'm still intrigued by the ideas for Conservapedia Day. No, not the poetry competition, but the statistical part. So, here a nice pic for you to analyze:

800px

LArron 16:05, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Now THAT'S a nice graph. Really nice job LArron. Can you knock up the same for RW and superimpose one on t'other? DogP 17:40, 5 January 2009 (EST)

The site is growing rapidly!!!1! -- Nx ^talk 17:42, 5 January 2009 (EST)

I thought they'd never make half of that initial blogburst in February '07. A lot of us here, and most of the RW founders, saw CP for the first time thanks to that. I assume a lot of the edits in that period were thanks to the victims of the Night of Blunt Knives. --Kels 19:31, 5 January 2009 (EST)

That graph makes me wish there was some way of comparing CP's traffic through its entire lifetime. I'm sure they've never come close to matching that period in terms of traffic, either. --Kels 19:33, 5 January 2009 (EST)

The spike around March is the Lenski part, right? Norseman^{Cyser Melomel} 00:34, 6 January 2009 (EST)

What I find interesting is that this shows that Conservapedia isn't actually growing, they're just moseying along. Radioactive afikomen ^{Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments.} 00:37, 6 January 2009 (EST)

At the moment, I can't upload pics. So, here's for the time being, the numbers of blocked and unblocked accounts at CP:

Date	Blocked	Not Blocked	Sum	Blocked Quota
2008-09-18	11,476	11,643	23,119	49.6%
2008-09-25	11,613	11,693	23,306	49.8%
2008-09-30	11,681	11,729	23,410	49.9%
2008-10-11	12,017	11,882	23,899	50.3%
2008-10-16	12,327	11,935	24,262	50.8%
2008-11-01	12,563	12,103	24,666	50.9%
2008-12-01	13,338	12,544	25,882	51.5%
2009-01-04	14,085	12,729	26,814	52.5%

LArron 10:09, 6 January 2009 (EST)

Which doesn't even touch on the range blocks that do in up to 65,000+ IP's in one swell foop. CЯacke® 14:22, 6 January 2009 (EST)

Ed necroed a wikipedia review thread

Ed Poor at RFA - Sat 19th July 2008 to Sat 27th December 2008 with resulting critique of Conservapedia. Amusing to read. --Shagie 16:49, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Ed's behavior at CP dictates what would've happened had he kept his powers at WP. They should just adopt his policy at CP - 5 years or infinite of "penance". Sounds fair to me. Norseman^{Cyser Melomel} 17:18, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Yup, as someone there pointed out, he's not trustworthy enough to handle a TV remote. Meanwhile, he's trying to be a bit more subtle with his POV forks these days. --Kels 19:28, 5 January 2009 (EST)

A rant: I read the discussion linked above and I think that a main point is - strangely - missing. Wikipedia shouldn't judge him for his political views, and everyone is guilty for some POV pushing. BUT what Ed Poor's behavior at CP shows is the gap (really, a canyon) between the knowledge he claims to have and the knowledge he shows. How often do we have to read sentences like: You shouldn't argue with a math teacher, I'm teaching a writing class, I know statistics...

A math teacher who doesn't know the Peano Axioms? Teaching a writing class and then, writing like he does? Knowing statistics and doing it the Schlafly way?

The man is delusional. His entries on math are abysmal. The problem: he thinks that they are great, he doesn't know his limits, and he won't learn (learning is for the humble editors at CP, his task is teaching). He has been acting as a pig-ignorant buffoon and high-handed dilettante towards everyone who shows an expertise on any field.

Fazit: The worst thing about Uncle Ed is that it is absolutely impossible for him to sincerely concede an error. And there are so many of his errors out there! LArron 07:41, 6 January 2009 (EST)

I think they should judge him by his behavior on CP, not his knowledge or his political views. I doubt he can flip a switch in his head to become a nice guy whenever he presses Alt-Tab -- Nx ^talk 07:45, 6 January 2009 (EST)

My point is not the lack of knowledge on his side - this would be absolutely no problem if he knew about his limits, as shown so often to him LArron 07:56, 6 January 2009 (EST)

It's a coin toss which of Ed or Ken is the more ignorant: I'd bet on Ed, any day. Frohlich 08:06, 6 January 2009 (EST)

Uncle Ed and Gun Control, part II

This was WIGOed already but I couldn't resist to put my favorite bit from Unca Ed's comment: "Crime in NYC would go down dramatically if every law-abiding citizen were allowed to get a gun and carry it around with them, loaded. Especially in high-crime poverty-stricken areas." (Bold text by me). I bet the big idiot's wet dream is to shoot some mothafucka in the head some day. JJ4e^{I christen thee Sir Annoyz Alot} 19:12, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Well.... if it could be restricted to "law-abiding citizen"s, maybe he'd have a point (to go with the one on his head). But, ... nah.... what an idiot. ħuman 19:35, 5 January 2009 (EST)

wouldn't a better solution be to remove the poverty and thus convert the crime into nice white collar conservative crime instead of this nasty liberal stuff that's endemic in these poor areas? (does that make sense? well itdid to me. OK then.) Frohlich 19:41, 5 January 2009 (EST)

I know this isn't CP-related, but it's important, so...

Somehow a conservative blog (The Confluence) made it into the "best liberal blog" category of the 2008 Weblog Awards. Please go vote against them, preferably by voting for "Talking Points Memo," the current favorite to beat them. Please also use all your proxy skillz to get in as many votes as possible.-caius (ninja) 19:34, 5 January 2009 (EST)

It is unfortunate that we don't get conversations going much on WIGO blogo and clogo so you could post that there. I voted for The Confluence, they seem to be winning. - User $\pi$ 20:02, 5 January 2009 (EST)

NOOOOO VOTE AGAINST CONFLUENCE!-caius (ninja) 20:16, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Oh I thought you wanted piss him/her off, naming his/her right-wing blog liberal. - User $\scriptstyle (6\sum _{n=1}^{\infty }n^{-2})^{1/2}$ 20:20, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Christ, Ames, calm down and start thinking rationally. You cannot vote against a single blog, but you can vote for a different one. Tell people to vote for Wonkette; it's the only other blog in that category with enough votes to contend with Confluence (130+ for Wonkette vs. 300+ for Confluence). Any other vote would be wasted on blogs with no chance of winning, and in the end Confluence would still be No. 1. Radioactive afikomen ^{Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments.} 20:27, 5 January 2009 (EST)

LOL. That is what I've been doing. I thought Crooks & Liars would be the one out front, so my blog post on the subject SAID to vote for C&L, noting the vote fracturing potential. But Wonkette came out of nowhere. That's good, though; I like Wonkette better.-caius (ninja) 20:32, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Holy shit. Wonkette is already ahead of Confluence (353 to 333 votes). Did Wonkette just now post a "vote for me" entry on her blog, or did someone here heavily abuse Tor? Radioactive afikomen ^{Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments.} 20:40, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Yup! (the post, that is) Me 20:59, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Irony, thy name is Andy

I'm too lazy to clip links to the changes, so here's a cut-n-paste from the "Wiki news item" thread on the CP Main Talk page, where Andy manages to refute ETrundel's last statement quite nicely:

Perhaps this article should be taken down then? The above comments are very sensible, and I agree. I personally feel that it makes us seem stupid; I know we are not. ETrundel 11:19, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Folks, learn how the simply concept of futures markets works and don't demand censorship of information. Thanks and Godspeed.--Andy Schlafly 11:31, 5 January 2009 (EST)

--SpinyNorman 20:26, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Ah, the 'simply concept'. Silly Andy. I also liked the way he asked for insights just a few posts above, before swatting everyones concerns away. EddyP 04:47, 6 January 2009 (EST)

Is this still about the bit where CP openly endorses domain squatting? --Sid 05:13, 6 January 2009 (EST)

Yep. --SpinyNorman 10:59, 6 January 2009 (EST)

Uncited article

Seems to me that Assfly is breaking commandments 1,2, and 5. Then he blocks the guy.--Netharian 20:48, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Links please. - User $\scriptstyle (6\sum _{n=1}^{\infty }n^{-2})^{1/2}$ 22:04, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Wow that was weird. No matter what page in the history you clicked on there was a giant picture of Hitler. - User $\scriptstyle (6\sum _{n=1}^{\infty }n^{-2})^{1/2}$ 22:27, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Yeah it was a template issue or something. It's fixed.--Netharian 22:56, 5 January 2009 (EST)

The past

Is a foreign country and good Murcans don't want to go there. Exceptions made for troops and suchlike of course! What does he mean by "secular" concept? Frohlich 21:36, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Really, someone has to sock up and ask what the fuck he is talking about. What the hell does he use to refer to things that have already happened? I mean, is any word not used in the Bible a "secular concept"? How often do the gospels use the word "conservative"? DickTurpis 21:45, 5 January 2009 (EST)

I think they say "Ronald Regan" a few times, but they've been covered up by liberals in the middle ages. --Kels 22:36, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Gentlemen, I suggest you peruse some articles.

Please feel free to peruse articles such as cp:Atheism or cp:Evolution in the next few minutes. This has been a public service announcement. --195.24.77.134 22:25, 5 January 2009 (EST)

How does that work? It is not in the edit history and you can't edit those pages as they are locked. - User $\scriptstyle (6\sum _{n=1}^{\infty }n^{-2})^{1/2}$ 22:32, 5 January 2009 (EST)

I perused them. They're poorly written garbage that relies on misrepresenting what people with educations say. --Kels 22:34, 5 January 2009 (EST)

I think you're missing the point a little, they fixed the atheism ones, but the rest of Ken's magnificent octopus is still Hitlered. I'd upload some images, but the image upload function seems to have gone away. --JeevesMkII 22:37, 5 January 2009 (EST)

TMT's switched it off to move servers. Frohlich 22:41, 5 January 2009 (EST)

HOW DID YOU DO THAT.

Superimpose a huge picture of Hitler, that is.-caius (ninja) 22:38, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Trade secrets, my son. --JeevesMkII 22:41, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Templates? Frohlich 22:41, 5 January 2009 (EST)

The only unprotected template on Atheism has not been edited today. - User $\scriptstyle (6\sum _{n=1}^{\infty }n^{-2})^{1/2}$ 22:52, 5 January 2009 (EST) Actually CP's clock appear slower than ours.

You're in good company, apparently TK can't figure it out either. --JeevesMkII 22:44, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Also, apparently TK reads T:WIGO for vandalism.-caius (ninja) 22:53, 5 January 2009 (EST)

In other words, just sticking code into some templates. Sorry about fixing the atheism ones, but I have to do something good every now and then to make sure I don't get blocked on the basis of my talk page edits. Commodore Guff (blocked for five years) 22:44, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Nice work. (by the way, I got "Evolution has no history" or some such. FUNNY!) ħuman 22:48, 5 January 2009 (EST)

CG, they don't care, they'll block you anyways the first time you piss off Ed by making sense. It's an exercise in futility to try to do good there.-caius (ninja) 22:51, 5 January 2009 (EST)

I realize that. But by golly, when I see homeschoolers reading an article from which I removed an extraneous apostrophe, I just feel so gosh darn good inside. Okay, that's complete and total bullshit, but I'm bored and if I get blocked then I'll have one less distraction. That cannot be tolerated. Commodore Guff (blocked for five years) 22:55, 5 January 2009 (EST)

You'll always have Facebook!-caius (ninja) 22:57, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Not enough Hitler. Commodore Guff (blocked for five years) 22:58, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Who was it that who suggested that we do a WIGO Hitler, collecting everyone time someone evokes Hitler in an argument in a Wiki/Blog/Forum/On-line opinion piece? - User $\scriptstyle (6\sum _{n=1}^{\infty }n^{-2})^{1/2}$ 23:02, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Okay, I'm drunk and coming late to this, what did I miss? Nothing looks out of place to me. DickTurpis 23:04, 5 January 2009 (EST)

When Trent has finished the server move I'll upload a picture. - User $\scriptstyle (6\sum _{n=1}^{\infty }n^{-2})^{1/2}$ 23:09, 5 January 2009 (EST)

I think we can officially declare MOAR HITLER to be over as a meme. I suspect no one is ever going to top everything Ken ever wrote being a big picture of Hitler for 20 minutes. --JeevesMkII 23:14, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Aaaaaaaand ... stable doors & horses, anyone? Frohlich 04:51, 6 January 2009 (EST)

Well congratulation who ever that was now not only an people not up load images but now you will no longer be able edit any templates</sarcasm>. And once again CP becomes more insular and paranoid. - User $\scriptstyle (6\sum _{n=1}^{\infty }n^{-2})^{1/2}$ 04:54, 6 January 2009 (EST)

Eh, the Template Protection paranoia started a long time ago, but it sorta got neglected along with several other maintenance duties (page moves and page deletions especially), so normal people actually had been able to *gasp* improve the site by editing templates without having to kiss a sysop's feet every time. --Sid 05:10, 6 January 2009 (EST)

My plan to seek __NOINDEX__ on to the templates for homosexuality and atheism failed as I don't think they have all the extension (it doesn't affect us as we a aren't using 1.13 yet). The look on Ken's face when his crap didn't show up in search engines would have been golden. - User $\scriptstyle (6\sum _{n=1}^{\infty }n^{-2})^{1/2}$ 05:26, 6 January 2009 (EST)

In response to an older question from Pi, that was my idea. Not only would it be fun to see people throwing around the old Argumentum ad Nazium, but it would great to have a page called "What is Going on with Hitler?" SirChuckB^{Call the FBI} 12:57, 6 January 2009 (EST)

Re: adding @top

[5] Frohlich 22:39, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Yeah but if you us the + button it places them automatically at the bottom. One simple rule covers a lot of cases. - User $\scriptstyle (6\sum _{n=1}^{\infty }n^{-2})^{1/2}$ 22:57, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Sloppy, probably just a noob to editing these things, and it got fixed. Maybe they hit "0" instead of "+" by accident? ħuman 22:58, 5 January 2009 (EST)

That was my fault, sorry, I'm new.--Netharian 22:59, 5 January 2009 (EST)

That's cool, now you know. - User $\scriptstyle (6\sum _{n=1}^{\infty }n^{-2})^{1/2}$ 23:22, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Pi: doesn't hurt to put the point though, does it? And it only takes one line. Frohlich 23:18, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Guess it doesn't. - User $\scriptstyle (6\sum _{n=1}^{\infty }n^{-2})^{1/2}$ 23:22, 5 January 2009 (EST)

How about this? Frohlich 23:23, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Seems a bit overkill? Also, the third line ("by hand") contradicts the first line (click "+"). ħuman 23:54, 5 January 2009 (EST)

<shrug> OK. Frohlich 00:05, 6 January 2009 (EST)

Didn't mean to be a wet blanket... but the third line does sort of dilute the message (wait, didn't I just type that elsewhere? nevermind...). ħuman 00:08, 6 January 2009 (EST)

Out with it!!

Interiot is "now at Rat"! So remove his crappy thing from our beautiful Wiki. Frohlich 02:00, 6 January 2009 (EST)

Isn't that... what's it called... Reductio at Hitlerum or something? Though to be fair, the counter apparently had been broken for some time, so it had been of limited use anyway. --Sid 05:06, 6 January 2009 (EST)

It was the edit comment that caught my attention. Frohlich 05:15, 6 January 2009 (EST)

Black hole

A black hole is a liberal myth! Andy probably knows (how?) what it means to a Russian, but I digress: isn't a supermassive Black hole, or it's white counterpart, a prop of young earth creationism? The time dilation [sic] afforded by such a phenomenon is supposed to acccount for the short time here vis a vis the rest of the universe, isn't it? Frohlich 02:25, 6 January 2009 (EST)

Ad hoc arguments are the corner stone of the YEC model. - User $\scriptstyle (6\sum _{n=1}^{\infty }n^{-2})^{1/2}$ 03:45, 6 January 2009 (EST)

I hadn't heard that one. I thought the "variable speed of light" thing was much more common, since at least it was internally consistent.--Tom Moore^{fiat justitia ruat coelum} 04:06, 6 January 2009 (EST)

I think it was a white hole somewhere in the neighbourhood (cosmically speaking) that allegedly slowed time down (!). Apparently it would need a black hole of some tens of galactic mass to affect time in such a manner, so it's been dropped even by YECers. ^{— Unsigned, by: Frohlich / talk / contribs}

It's been a while since I looked into the entire "Starlight problem" issue, but I think that the whole "variable speed of light" gig never really worked out. There apparently was some serious research (by non-YECists, even) about the value of c changing, and I think it even gave a result that showed that c might have changed, but that was more along the lines of a 0.00000001% decrease over the last few billion years or so, not the immense factor hoped for by YECists. The whole "c decay" gig wasn't really internally consistent because drastic changes of c would screw up pretty much everything else, so people had to handwave quite a bit (Something like "Ohhh, the other stuff won't change because some other constant ALSO changed to compensate", but to repeat the disclaimer: It's been a good while and I'm working from fuzzy memory here, so this might be wrong).

Some people (Ken, for example, IIRC) still sorta cling to "c decay", but as a general rule, it's not really the favored explanation right now because it can't even fully address the concerns of fellow YECists. --Sid 05:02, 6 January 2009 (EST)

If Ken believes it, it can't be true. Frohlich 05:17, 6 January 2009 (EST)

Hark!

Much as you have to hate TK, this block is clearly on the money, and has a witty reason to boot. Commiserations to Bradlaugh, whoever you are - you barely had the chance to get started.--Kriss Akabusi^{AAAAWOOOOGAAAR!!1} 07:03, 6 January 2009 (EST)

Oh well. Just flying a kite, and with a relatively clean sock, despite the unwise choice of name. How long should I leave it before having another serious attempt? Two, three months? Andy's ego should be in need of a bit of unquestioning support by then, no? (Oh God, it's catching) Fretfulporpentine 09:39, 6 January 2009 (EST)

In two, three month you should be able to come back as Bugler, own up to your real name (Trust me gov, I'm B.U. Gler from the East-London Glers..), and take up your good work, again, or - as TK phrased it so eloquently to LowKey:

Do not make the mistake of thinking just because someone is removed that means all of their actions are canceled or were wrong. I suggest you take an extra large dose of MYOB. You are lucky I haven't blocked you for your user page, which is a violation of CP Guidelines against denigrating other CP users and CP itself. I am issuing you an instruction that re-instates Buglers good advice to you: make good and substantive edits, avoid argument without end and tit for tat replies. —

LArron 10:20, 6 January 2009 (EST)

I think this presents an interesting challenge... Clearly those users who appear too sycophantic, as Bugler did, will be considered by TK to be parodists. However, Schlafly likes sycophants. In the long term, I can see this leading to another Schalfly/TK showdown. Stile4aly 10:45, 6 January 2009 (EST)

FP, get a new IP address and start immediately! Just unplug your DSL modem for a 12-hour period.-caius (ninja) 10:54, 6 January 2009 (EST)

Glerbu, the kindly-spirited Bhutanese, lated 38 minutes, which is about 37 minutes longer than I would have bet. What is a 'rag man', by the way? Is it the same as a straw man? Fretfulporpentine 13:35, 6 January 2009 (EST)

A Simply Concept

It's just a simply concept, but IMHO, if CP is now waxing poetic on FASHION, then is their implosion imminent? Jimaginator 09:16, 6 January 2009 (EST)

Andy is the Xtian Dior of New Jersey, dontchaknow. Frohlich 09:20, 6 January 2009 (EST)

Not a sign of implosion, just another desperate grasp at anything to attack Obama and company about. --Arcan ¡ollǝɥ 09:22, 6 January 2009 (EST)

Sadly, I feel they will soon have plenty to attack Obama on. What hidden "nuggets" has Bush been hiding that nobody knows about, that will "pop up" as soon as Obama takes office? It's bad enough all the things that were already known. Perhaps the Federal Reserve is about to collapse, or Bush gave Alaska back to the Russians, or who knows? Of course their ineptitude with covering their tracks gives me some hope that we have seen it all...Jimaginator 09:57, 6 January 2009 (EST)

I think the next few years are going to see a bunch of tell-all books, a la Scott McClellan, written by inner-circle Bushies trying to clear their consciences and reputations. Unfortunately, one thing the Bush/Cheney/Rove team was very good at was being very bad at record-keeping - the volume of missing and supposedly unrecoverable emails related to key controversies like the DOJ firings makes Nixon's 18-minute tape gap look like amateur hour in comparison. --SpinyNorman 11:06, 6 January 2009 (EST)

They learned a lot from Nixon's sloppiness (most of them worked for him...). As far as the cat and the bag, I suspect there are a number of security type issues that very few people know about, and Barack has been handed the "file" as part of the transition. It will be interesting to see what unexplained turnarounds he has to make as a result. ħuman 15:13, 6 January 2009 (EST)

Yeah, I can see why Obama would have needed a vacation after those first few transition briefings... --SpinyNorman 15:34, 6 January 2009 (EST)

Ed and the sciences...

I always thought that Ed Poor applied his lack of knowledge only to mathematics and literature. But, he's equally versed with chemistry: He found the molecule of table salt. That he won't get a Nobel prize for this deed is certainly a sign of liberal deceit! LArron 10:40, 6 January 2009 (EST)

Where does it say he found it? Totnesmartin 13:52, 6 January 2009 (EST)

I dunno, looking at the diff it appears he made it clearer. What he replaced was a bit clumsy, and what he wrote was correct, right? ħuman 15:17, 6 January 2009 (EST)

As the edit comment when it was removed points out, salt isn't molecular - it's a crystal lattice of Na and Cl ions (ie ionic instead of covalent bonds). In fact, NaCl is probably amongst the standard textbook examples of something which isn't molecular. alt 15:22, 6 January 2009 (EST)

Oh, oh, oh dear. As a chemist, I can't watch. Eighth graders know better than this.

Actually, the last edit I think I made as Sterile on CP was about some stupid page for a molecular bond, which is some archaic term for covalent bond they found in some creationist science book. I tried to tell them, but they insisted on blocking me... Sterile^rationalize 16:11, 6 January 2009 (EST)

A couple of months ago (maybe a year ago, actually) I went through all of the chemistry pages and removed the gross errors. Some of them had some really, really, really bad errors in them. JazzMan 16:20, 6 January 2009 (EST)

Good point on the NaCl, I stand corrected - doesn't the same thing apply to the metals that are mentioned, and the diamond/graphite example?

playing catch-up, kind of

I stopped reading Conservapedia (and RW and WIGO) a little over a month ago, due to what was essentially an emotional punch to the gut and stomp on the testicles - one which was kind of deserved in a way, but which has also essentially left me the most depressed I've been in years. For reasons of maintaining some sanity/hope for the universe, I stopped keeping up. However, the terrible conflict in Gaza made me come back to CP to see what their reaction was (predictably bare except for allegations of liberal media distortion). In the interest of not hurting myself further by catching up manually, could someone please do me the service of telling me the status quo over there? I see TK and Jpatt nabbed sysop and Bugler and Rod are still around. Has PJR left, or any other casualties? 71.193.205.16 14:47, 6 January 2009 (EST)

Bugler is no longer with us, he outed himself as a parodist around new year after he failed to convince Andy that his real name was "Brian Ugler" when he asked (apparently he was about to get sysop privileges). He was User:Fretfulporpentine

Rod Weather's privileges were taking away along with Bugler's on late december because "getting ready for 2009"

CPAdmin1 left CP for a number of reasons you can read about here.

As you said, TK and Jpatt were elevated to sysop status as well as JessicaT, RJJensen, DuncanB and AddisonDM (who's he anyway). Predictably, TK is wrecking havoc over there.

NightFlare 14:58, 6 January 2009 (EST)

Bugler is with us. He's User:Fretfulporpentine -- Nx ^talk 15:00, 6 January 2009 (EST)

(ECx2!)TK range-blocks anything that moves in deceitful fashion, and Andy does nothing about it. Like Bugler, he's learned nothing. Norseman^{Cyser Melomel} 15:01, 6 January 2009 (EST)

Actually, I think it's fairly obvious (to me anyway) that TK is out to cause even more damage than Bugler managed to, or even tried to - he range-blocks IPs on the pretext of being 'proxies' or 'vandals' or 'proxies used by vandals' when they clearly aren't. I have a sneaking suspicion that his eventual aim is to have that many IPs range-blocked that no-one can actually edit CP. Either that, or he genuinely does believe he is blocking vandals, but is just monumentally stupid. Zmidponk 15:16, 6 January 2009 (EST)

It's obvious to more than just you. TK readily admits this fact to people that he thinks he can use to help bring down the site. JazzMan 16:17, 6 January 2009 (EST)

Thanks for the update. I'm kind of surprised to see Bugler unmasked, and must give credit to Fretful for playing the part so well and managing to so easily slip in some of the nastier comments (like his remarks about Australians in general when talking with PJR). I'm going to try to avoid getting caught up in reading about this stuff every day again, but I have to admit I'm eager to see if TK is satisfied with his current level of action or if he'll keep the snowball rolling. 71.193.205.16 15:58, 6 January 2009 (EST)

Uppy, Downey Arrows

Soryy if this is the wrong place to post, but has anybody noticed that the goat has ate the voting arrows on the WIGO Conservapedia page? 'Cause it certainly has for me, major bummer, given that voting on the articles is the major highpoint of my life *weeps silently into his mug of goat bovril* (P.S. If this is the wrong page for this post, please feel free to move, villify, trample, sacrifice or otherwise liberalise this edit)--stunteddwarf 21:07, 6 January 2009 (EST)

Hang on, they should be back soon. Growing pains and all... ħuman 01:18, 7 January 2009 (EST)

Jeb for Prez!

Sorry, this was just too funny to resist. FernoKlump^{Mr. Assfly! Don't forget about this petition!} 00:44, 7 January 2009 (EST)

The idea of Jeb running for president in 4 years actually terrifies me. EternalCritic 02:04, 7 January 2009 (EST)

Columbanus wigo

Would score higher if it linked each word to each step of the edit war. IMHO. ħuman 01:18, 7 January 2009 (EST)

What was that user trying to do, anyways? Commodore Guff (blocked for five years) 02:46, 7 January 2009 (EST)

If you mean ETrundel: "The name contained 'ANUS', so it can't possibly exist and the article must be vandalism." Followed by Oh wait, it does! D'oh!" --Sid 06:16, 7 January 2009 (EST)

Bonus Lulz: DeanS simply took ETrundel's word and applied the banhammer without actually fact-checking anything himself. Though this is one of the few times I recall where DeanS actually apologizes for something and admits that he made a dumb mistake. --Sid 06:22, 7 January 2009 (EST)

Ed

Is Ed being a complete moron even notable at this point? I mean, most WIGO entries for the Moonie retard are pretty much interchangable. EternalCritic 02:01, 7 January 2009 (EST)

There's a reason the "biggest idiot on CP" award is named for him. And, yeah, it's been suggested we create a "What is going on with your perverted uncle Ed" page, since he is so talented at swamping WIGO with his idiocy. ħuman 02:13, 7 January 2009 (EST)

I suppose its not so bad since his activity seems to run in cycles. EternalCritic 02:16, 7 January 2009 (EST)

Yeah, like love comes in spurts. Equally staining of the uninvolved. ħuman 02:17, 7 January 2009 (EST)

7 days, no word...

Well, it was a good try. Perhaps Andy can't logicfail his way out of this one?!

Andy can't fight back with "liberal" cards or with the drumming of "open your mind" bullshit since the person is agreeing with him, so he does what he does best. Act as if no discussion ever took place! Norseman^{Cyser Melomel} 08:12, 7 January 2009 (EST)

Google and WIGO

The way I get to WIGO is by typing "rationalwiki" into Gewgle, then clicking the "What is going on at CP" link. It now directs to a page called Index.php (blank page), so I just made a redirect to WIGO for now. Norseman^{Cyser Melomel} 08:12, 7 January 2009 (EST)

Try rationalwiki.com/wiki instead of rationalwiki.com -- Nx ^talk 08:21, 7 January 2009 (EST)

Ouch, you redirected "index.php"? That might not be good... anyway, why don't you just bookmark it? Using too many machines to make it useful? Can you email yourself a link to it that you can access from anywhere? ħuman 14:13, 7 January 2009 (EST)

I was getting the opposite - my old main page bookmark took me to WIGO CP. Luckily I only use one computer, unless work is reaallly slack. Totnesmartin 14:22, 7 January 2009 (EST)

Same here, I haven't updated the link in my Opera speed-dial since the move and now it redirects (a wiki redirect by the look of it rather than anything else: http://rationalwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Index.php&redirect=no) to WIGO:CP. I assume it would be better to redirect something called index.php to the main page? ArmondikoV^sshole 06:41, 8 January 2009 (EST)

That makes sense, yes. ħuman 16:59, 8 January 2009 (EST)

My Schlafly Sense is tingling...

I'm detecting an imminent 90/10 block for doing annoying things like, you know, sticking to facts, making an "absurd" non sequitur by using maths, and then insisting on last-wordism by reminding him that there are, oh, only a few hundred thousand kids worldwide who need adoption but don't happen to be babies anymore. Sorry, just needed to whinge. --SpinyNorman 10:30, 7 January 2009 (EST)

He's insufferable, isn't he? What sort of moron argues by rejecting everything that disagrees with their gut instinct as "liberal"? On a related note, see the disaster that is cp:Overpopulation. I'm not convinced JPatt isn't a parodist. He's either a parodist or simply illiterate and unthinking, anyway. --JeevesMkII 10:51, 7 January 2009 (EST)

Putting Andy through the Schlafly-to-human function, we come up with:

"Dinsdale, I'm not going to spend all day responding to your logical errors and non sequiturs well reasoned arguments. This is my last response. The government is filled with liberal bureaucrats people who disagree with me, regardless of who is president. In fact, the president is prohibited from firing or replacing most civil servants. Please, please, learn how our government works. Second, your adoption citation is to a website seeking to sign-up families wanting to adopt. Of course they are going to make it look like there is an abundance of babies to adopt. In fact, adoption is very difficult due to the scarcity of people who actually want to adopt children who aren't babies anymore, and I think Chief Justice Roberts' wife was even criticized by liberals who questioned how she was able to adopt when others have so much difficulty finding babies to adopt. Your own in-laws apparently traveled all the way to Russia to adopt.

Dinsdale, there are plenty of open-minded people who slavishly agree with everything I say with whom I can discuss issues. I'm not going to waste more time discussing issues with you until you demonstrate a more open mind toadying attitude."

There, much clearer. --JeevesMkII 11:06, 7 January 2009 (EST)

(undent)

Jpatt's not a parodist - we've exchanged emails offline that convince me of it. We disagree on a lot of things (and I'll be taking on the overpopulation article when I have some time), but in fairness to him he does listen, and will accept edits he disagrees with if they can be backed up. That's the kind of editor that I had initially expected to find on CP - wayyy to the right, but willing to dialogue with others over disagreements. It's the Andys and Eds who drive me nuts - blocking or ignoring challenges instead of defending their assertions.--SpinyNorman 11:24, 7 January 2009 (EST)

Hrm, now JPatt has the powah, how long until he turns in to just another Andy or Ed d'ya reckon? It happened to Learn Together, almost overnight. --JeevesMkII 11:33, 7 January 2009 (EST)

He's had block rights for some time now, and I've always thought of that as the one which is most easily abused compared to the extra ones a sysop gets. I don't think I've noticed any blatantly arrogant blocks from Jpatt, especially when compared to Ed, or LearnTogether (especially if you disrespect Sarah Palin). I think JP is like PJR in that they'd rather know they got the better end of a disagreement by winning on merit instead of blocking & reverting the other person. Oh, and nice job on the translation above - you should create a special AndySpeak version of Mad Libs. --SpinyNorman 11:50, 7 January 2009 (EST)

Didn't Learntogether start the toadying shortly before getting sysop right? Or maybe I'm confusing him with Iduan. NightFlare 11:56, 7 January 2009 (EST)

Bonus Lulz

Assfly called the CIA liberal again. You know, he's got a point, when I think CIA, I think a bunch of hippies singing give peace a chance and passing around a joint.... Ok, maybe that last part is true. Do we have a list of things deemed Liberal by Schlafly anywhere arond here? SirChuckB^{Call the FBI} 13:18, 7 January 2009 (EST)

That would be this, probably. Totnesmartin 14:29, 7 January 2009 (EST)

That's one of the many things that's amazed me over the last 8 years--Bush has been SO crazy and SO bad that he had people like ME defending the CIA. Truly, we are all living in Bizarro World now. --Gulik 23:19, 7 January 2009 (EST)

This could explain a bit

Thanks to someone at CP for pointing it out, but there is a Christian Demyer Franken syndrome. I believe it is when Christians named Demyer get obsessed over Al Franken. Interestingly enough, one of the symptoms in mental retardation. That does explain a lot. DickTurpis 13:51, 7 January 2009 (EST)

To say nothing of the constricted or absent anal opening, which would pretty much finish the explanation. CP should have an article on this! Or, perhaps we should? ħuman 01:02, 8 January 2009 (EST)

You mean, that's not parody? -- Nx ^talk 14:24, 7 January 2009 (EST)

Looks like there's too many unique google hits for it to be a parody. I mean, if it were it would have to be one of us, right? Who else would make a DeMyer syndrome? The sites seem to be legit medical ones. DickTurpis 16:43, 7 January 2009 (EST)

A New Schlafly-ism?

I was thinking about my exchange with Andy this morning, and realized taht a new term may be needed - the "Schlafly Slip", as in giving one the Schlafly Slip. It's any one of several dismissive lines used to slip out of a debate when he suspects that he's about to lose badly. In my discussion with him about overpopulation, adoption and the validity of the CIA Sourcebook as a reference, I suspect he knew he wasn't making any sense at all, so I got a doubled-up Schlafly Slip:

• "Dinsdale, I'm not going to spend all day responding to your logical errors and non sequiturs. This is my last response."
• "Dinsdale, there are plenty of open-minded people with whom I can discuss issues. I'm not going to waste more time discussing issues with you until you demonstrate a more open mind."

Is this an article-worthy Schlaflyism for RW? --SpinyNorman 16:24, 7 January 2009 (EST)

Most Certainly!--207.177.213.52 16:34, 7 January 2009 (EST)

Done. --SpinyNorman 18:05, 7 January 2009 (EST)

CP falling down the job?

No one on the main page has gloated over Travolta's son's death, or tap danced on the graves of the dead Gazans. What's up with that? Czolgolz 16:53, 7 January 2009 (EST)

It's not the poor kid's fault that his parents are idiots and refused to give him his medication. -- Nx ^talk 17:01, 7 January 2009 (EST)

This one was just a tragedy involving a kid that doesn't quite fit the "Hollywood Values" scope. Or so I hope, anyway. --SpinyNorman 17:11, 7 January 2009 (EST)

I was wondering about that, I mean, if ANYONE dies from ANYTHING who's even REMOTELY attached to "hollywood" it's "hollywood values". But was there anything truely suspect about it? We know Travolta is a bit of a Scientologist and all but I don't think it was a factor in his son's death. ArmondikoV^sshole 08:14, 8 January 2009 (EST)

Considering Scientology's attitude to medicine in general, it wouldn't surprise me at all if it were. --AKjeldsen^{Cum dissensie} 08:25, 8 January 2009 (EST)