Essay talk:The BNP and the EU elections

Career in jeopardy?

I also doubt very much the man photographed is a real doctor, as this would reduce his credibility and jepoardise his career in doctoring.- Are they really revoking doctors' licenses over there for membership in the wrong political party? ListenerX^TalkerX 17:19, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

No way, but peer pressure? I think SuperJ is probably right, or he's a very insignificant doctor indeed. ^{This message brought to you by: respond}_and honey 17:24, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

He could be one in private practice; I know of at least one doctor over here who is also an extreme fundamentalist crank and has discussed strategies for circumventing laws against child abuse. ListenerX^TalkerX 17:27, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

The membership list was recently released & caused quite a stir. Some coppers where suspended and there was much consternation. If he's in private practice (which I hadn't considered) then I don't like him anyway! There's rotten apples in every crop. ^{This message brought to you by: respond}_and honey 17:31, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Police officers and prison guards are the only professions which are specifically banned from BNP membership. Wikipedia's got a good section about organisations banning it SJ ^Debaser 17:34, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Over here, we have such strict laws protecting the civil servants that they cannot even sack Fred Phelps's children from their posts. ListenerX^TalkerX 17:40, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

That Wp link tells the story quite well. ^{This message brought to you by: respond}_and honey 17:51, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, it's good isn't it? LX, we in Britain are what are referred to by as the modern right-wing as "politically correct," and by rednecks as "liberal douches." SJ ^Debaser 17:52, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

And as a result, instead of allowing the cranks to put on display just how insignificant and loony they really are, you have now put them in a position where they can with some credibility claim that they are being held down by State action. ListenerX^TalkerX 18:07, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Listener: every time I read something you've written it rubs me up the wrong way; it's not what you say, it's the way you say it. Stop being so fucking dogmatic. The BNP have plenty of rights, and get quite enough publicity,they're not allowed to be in the Police or prison service because they shouldn't be, but they're allowed to stand for election and given appropriate broadcast time. Everyone can see how bigotted they are. ^{This message brought to you by: respond}_and honey 18:15, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

+1 Bondurant 18:24, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Nick Griffin was put on trial at one point for referring to Islam as a "wicked vicious faith." If the BNP people were given full freedom of speech they would not be nearly so successful at passing off this "moderate," "oppressed-by-the-system" image of theirs. And who are any of us to say which political party membership is or is not appropriate for police officers to hold? ListenerX^TalkerX 18:28, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Change the topic much? While it's true that arresting Nick Griffin only serves to raise his profile, what he does as a political leader is nothing to do with whether scumbags of his ilk should be in the police force. In my opinion, they should be excluded from the medical profession, the armed forces, the tax office, public libraries or any other civil service, because people in this line of work have a duty to treat everyone equally, regardless of race, sexual orientation, religion or which football team they support, and being in the BNP is totally incompatible with that. Bondurant 18:40, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

The proper approach there, which has proven useful in the past, is to drum such a person out as soon as they actually treat someone inequally, rather than just assuming from the start that they would because they hold membership in a disfavored political party. I hear that one clergyman was duped by BNP propaganda and joined but later dropped out when he found out what they were really about. ListenerX^TalkerX 18:46, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

It's not safe to take that risk with the police force though. Mark Daly did an exposé about racism in the British police and the main guy he was associating with was a KKK nut who spoke of literally killing "pakis". There should be NO ROOM for them in the police service. SJ ^Debaser 18:52, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

They should drum out the KKK nut, then; the article you linked to about Mark Daly's expose seems to suggest that it is just a few bad apples making the rest look bad. ListenerX^TalkerX 19:07, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm fairly sure I've seen Dr. Stock Photo in other publications. My vote goes for not fakery. --JeevesMkII ^{The gentleman's gentleman at the other site} 19:11, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Daly emphasises that it's only a few racist officers making the others look bad, you're right about that. But with all respect, you really have to be a Briton to understand the social stigma of being associated with the BNP. SJ ^Debaser 19:19, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

I estimate it is rather like being associated with the National Alliance over here ("Ugh! Nazis!"). But the question is, how much of that social stigma is due to people actually disliking the BNP and their policies, and how much is due to the State cracking down on the BNP? ListenerX^TalkerX 19:25, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

It's nothing to do with the state cracking down on them, that's effect rather than cause. One of the most persistent stickers in British cities is the Anti-Nazi league's say no to the BNP bill, they're everywhere. The BNP really are loathsome little thugs. They're just the sort of people who'd have been first in line at the SS recruiting station. --JeevesMkII ^{The gentleman's gentleman at the other site} 19:44, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Also, people aren't racist on the large scale that the BNP are; they want a racially white Britain which is unacceptable to so many Britons. Many of my friends are of Afriacan, Asian and European heritage and I'd stand and fight with them any day than join the fucking BNP. SJ ^Debaser 19:47, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

(EC) No doubt they would have. However, it is rather strange that a party so despised should be getting members elected to city councils and and have a serious shot at having members in the EU parliament. ListenerX^TalkerX 19:52, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Not so surprising, it's just the single issue candidate effect. A polarising issue plus low turnout equals bizarre electoral aberrations, and there's no lower turnout elections than the EU parliament elections. --JeevesMkII ^{The gentleman's gentleman at the other site} 19:58, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

BNP appeal for the EU elections would be moderate conservatives and right-wingers of the votership wanting out of the EU rather than supporting the racist ideologies of the BNP. SJ ^Debaser 20:21, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

UKIP

I also got this flyer and the UKIP one, both together. There have also been a large number of UKIP billboards in my city, featuring a picture of Winston Churchill and various polemic statements about European Unions membership. This actually makes me quite irate, because not only are they lying by omission in many of the adverts, but also because Churchill was one of the earliest true advocates of European co-operation. I don't suppose you'll see a UKIP billboard with a quote of Churchill's along the lines of "We must build a kind of United States of Europe".

UKIP, the BNP, they're cut from the same cloth, and can go to hell. But the shame of it is that people are so disgusted with the current British parliament right now (and the fact that the EU elections are partially proportional representation) that we'll undoubtedly see more MEPs from both parties. Bondurant 18:23, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Can you show us the UKIP leaflet? Good Essay by the way, and BNP can go and deport themselves onto a little island where no-one lives so they don't harm anyone with their bull***s Bazer63 (talk)

The BNP: Now with 80% MOAR JINGOISM!

Side one

Side two

I got a bigger, faster, stronger version of the same garbage. I particularly liked the slogan "Trafalgar, The Somme, Dunkirk, D-Day, The Falklands - We've earned the right." I don't know who "we" is, exactly. I know I didn't fight any of those engagements, and I'm pretty sure the author wasn't at Trafalgar or The Somme. Also, since Dunkirk was about us legging it and leaving the frogs to their fate, I'm not sure where they're going with that exactly. The fact that they think the UK wastes a quarter of its GDP on the EU just underscores how totally not serious these wankers are. --JeevesMkII ^{The gentleman's gentleman at the other site} 18:46, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Dr. Stock Photo to the OR!

Yeah, I knew I'd seen him before. I guess when you're the BNP you have to manufacture your own supporters. --JeevesMkII ^{The gentleman's gentleman at the other site} 19:29, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Well found, Jeeves. Who's gonna tax 'em with it? ^{This message brought to you by: respond}_and honey 19:36, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

These happy chaps look a bit familiar too. I'll bet they have something in common with everyone in the flyer. --Kels 19:43, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

I'd feel sick if it was my photo on a hate leaflet like these - regardless of whether or not the BNP legally bought it. SJ ^Debaser 19:49, 20 May 2009 (UTC)