Talk:Israel

Before I get attacked for an obviously conservative/liberal piece of racist/imperialist/whatever garbage, I was just trying to get something up here that would explain things somewhat. It's kind of bleh, but if ANYONE knows more about it than me, PLEASE add something.

It's been a while since I've studied this subject, but I think the idea that the land was given to them is erroneous, in a way. Settlement was encouraged there, but Israel had to declare its statehood, and (as is often the case) not without violence. The roots of zionism, of course, go back well before WWII, and the land itself was a serious point of contention during and after WWI, as contradictory assurances were made for the same area. The Balfour Declaration stated preference for a Jewish homeland, but the same basic area was being promised to the Arabs for their revolt against the Ottoman Empire. I think Britain also made assurances to France that it would become a French protectorate. As usual the politicians made a huge mess of something that could easily have been, well... a slightly less huge mess. DickTurpis 23:14, 23 September 2007 (EDT)

If that's the case, do you mind editing it to include some of that? My general chronology is a little shaky; I'm a bit better with the theory for why it was needed.Researcher 23:30, 23 September 2007 (EDT)

Sure, but keep in mind I'm not what WP calls a "reliable source" (much of this is from memory going back 10 years). You should probably get some independent verification (I'd look some of it up but I'm tired). The real concern is that it is very difficult to briefly describe any aspect of the Israeli-Palestinian situation without inaccuracies due to oversimplification. DickTurpis 23:35, 23 September 2007 (EDT)

How many of us are reliable sources? For most of the pages I've made up (this one included!) I've pulled facts out of classes I took up to 5 years ago in the hopes that I'm right. It's still better than nothing, and if you put your own worries out here in the talk page no one should be able to accuse you of attempting to move things in a direction due to ideology. Researcher 23:39, 23 September 2007 (EDT)

What's that make my edits - I left school in '62 - everything's changed since then. I do remember that loads of members of the early Israeli government had been previously regarded as terrorists. Susan^{talk to me} 01:44, 24 September 2007 (EDT)

I rather think that we should mention things like British involvement and the Balfour Declaration. The terrorists came from the Haganah and the Irgun. Can't quite see a good RW angle at the moment though.--Bob^{'s your uncle} 16:01, 25 September 2007 (EDT)

The problem with an "RW" angle is that this is so contentious, even by rational people, that it's hard to find a good angle. I put it up because there were so many links.Researcher 16:04, 25 September 2007 (EDT)

references

could someone add a wikipedia link with one of those "for a alternative look" or what ever thing on the side?

Asia, rly?

Rly. The middle East is Asia - Egypt is sort of the wild card - it's sort of in the Middle East in terms of its politics, but very much in Africa in terms of geography. Once you get comfortable with the idea that "Asia" is an imperialist/European/Orientalist construction anyway...PFoster 21:12, 29 February 2008 (EST)

Continents are themselves an imperialist/European/Orientalist construct, anyway. While the middle east may be "in asia", I found the description strange. Why no just say it's in the Middle East? Everyone knows where that is. Asia, on the other hand... human 23:06, 29 February 2008 (EST)

Lost tribes

Would someone with better research skills than me like to examine the 'lost tribes' and the British Israel movement? Susan^purrrrr 19:32, 8 March 2008 (EST)

Hey, Susan, can you throw a linky reffy thingie on that new section's quote? human 21:12, 8 March 2008 (EST)

Braiman

For all of his reluctance to actually discuss anythign on this here talk page, I have to agree that what was on the page in the first place wasn't so hot. The first part was okay but not unsourced, and that bit about a "new Holocaust" was a bit inflammatory, especially since it wasn't sourced either. The second bit about the British Isles made no sense at all to me. Maybe a rewrite explaining what the heck it was referring to? --Kels 14:58, 15 March 2008 (EDT)

Palestine/Israel conflict

I think it might work better if we have the articles about each country (or whatever you want to call them) be relatively neutral to slightly favorable. Then we should have an Israeli/Palestinian conflict article that analyzes the good, the bad, and the ugly. That way, neither "country" article will present one-sided snark or commentary, and the conflict article will contain both sides in one place. Any thoughts on that? (posted on both talk pages) human 19:51, 15 March 2008 (EDT)

Call me biased, but I think it is better fit for *RationalWiki* to criticize the Muslim fundamentalism ("We will never normalize relations with Israel, we will win because Allah is with us") rather than automatically take the stance opposite to that of the Christian fundamentalists. ^{— Unsigned, by: 85.250.19.2 / talk / contribs}

Hmm...

Yeah, the editorializing is a bit thick. If the wikipedia article is 'less biased', then by all means crib it.

By in large, some mechanism to redirect searches to wikipedia pages where topics aren't really about pseudo-science or anti-science would probably be the 'right' thing to do. It would prevent this site from losing focus and trying to be a 'wikipedia clone', or yet another 'anti-conservapedia' site (like Liberapedia).

Focusing on various claims about what Israel 'is' and 'isn't' thought to be according to various people might be a good starting point for interesting original content. Maybe without making it a 'Palestine is a VICTIM' page. ^{— Unsigned, by: 96.235.105.104 / talk / contribs}

So what bothers you about our article? I note no salient comments regarding whatever your issues might be... ħuman 05:47, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

No such country as "Israel"

"Israel" is correctly called Occupied Palestine. The government of Israel, and it's Judeo-American and Judeo-British puppet governments, founded a state based on terror and oppression. I refuse to recognize this terrorist state, or other Jewish terror states such as "America", and RationalWiki should do the same. ILOVEPALESTINE (talk) 01:50, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Oh well. Aceⁱ⁹ 01:52, 5 March 2010 (UTC)