Talk:English-only movement

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This page is intentionally in Spanish, please do not "fix" it by making it in English --Eira ^omtg! The Goat be praised. 21:33, 26 January 2008 (EST)

Can I add some stuff in Chinook? Secret Squirrel 21:35, 26 January 2008 (EST)

Anything but English! --Eira ^omtg! The Goat be praised. 21:36, 26 January 2008 (EST)

Ahh, thanks! Secret Squirrel 21:38, 26 January 2008 (EST)

You speak Chinook? too cool. Endangered languages Rock! I could do somethign in lakota, but I don't know the words for "English" or "movement" or "offical"... which sorta defeats the purpose. Humm "Only white speach is allowed here?"--Waiting for Godot 14:26, 6 August 2008 (EDT)

You might be able to find a Lakota - English dictionary online. I've found a crazy wealth of rare-language dictionaries online. --Eira ^omtg! The Goat be praised. 14:32, 6 August 2008 (EDT)

Online dictionaries are only that, dictionaries. It would be the same as me saying, in japanese, Watashi tabaru. for "i eat" without having knowledge of how the grammar works. That's one of the problems in the French translation, but i didn't want to step on anyone's toes.--Waiting for Godot 14:34, 6 August 2008 (EDT)

You said you know "Lakota"... I figured that meant you understood how to effect the correct grammar. Your example is kind of uh... funny, because it does mean "I eat", and does so in an entirely grammatical way. It's just not the most formal way of saying it. (It's something I would say to friends, or maybe a sister, but not to my parents, or a stranger. It's also unlikely that a boy would be saying it unless he were talking to his... eh... boys just don't really use "watashi" all that much... especially if it's informal enough to use the informal form of the verb.) The French translation was taken directly from the french Wikipedia, which has sense been updated... I can update it again on our page, if it bothers you that much. :)

Oh, i know the grammar of Lakota as well as any one who doesn't speak it for a living (as it were) could, but my point is i'm highly suspect of dictionaries, online or otherwise. As for the japanese, my understanding is that "watashi" required a "wa" to be a subject. My knowledge of japanese is umm (blushes) from anime.  ;-)--Waiting for Godot 15:38, 6 August 2008 (EDT)

Japanese is "pro-drop" that means they drop a bunch of stuff. "wa", and "o" are the two particles most commonly dropped, as well pronouns typically drop themselves as well, as they can be deduced from context. "taberu" (I'm eating) "taberu?" (are you eating?) If you want to talk about perfect formal Japanese, you wouldn't even use "watashi" nor "taberu" anyways. The most humble form of 1st person address is "watakushi", and then there's the humble form of "taberu" (which I don't know). Either way, you're only going to be using that Japanese with the Emperor anyways. --Eira ^omtg! The Goat be praised. 21:41, 6 August 2008 (EDT)

Anyone know Klingon? Secret Squirrel 22:01, 26 January 2008 (EST)

Contents 1 日本語 2 Awesome article 3 UTF-8 4 To clear up anything 5 Siglish 5.1 Danish 6 Fun 7 Mission 8 Could I put a kip in American Sign Language? 9 Trakudo Angle 10 Funny boxes instead of characters 11 Missing languages 12 Una Pictura Que Los Lectores Deben Pensar Que Es Graciosa Y Tonta!

[edit] 日本語

The Japanese there seems to be broken. I can hardly understand even a bit of it. --Eira ^omtg! The Goat be praised. 10:12, 27 January 2008 (EST)

ナ、アチクルの日本語は悪いですわ。あたしは少しでも分かれます。どれか治れますか？ The Japanese there seems to be broken. I can hardly understand even a bit of it. --Eira ^omtg! The Goat be praised. 10:20, 27 January 2008 (EST)

Sorry - that translation was courtesy of babelfish.altavista.com which doesn't seem to be much of a translator. It is supposed to be a translation of some classic wisdom from Yoda. "Try not. Do or do not. There is no try." Secret Squirrel 10:16, 27 January 2008 (EST)

Yes, autotranslators don't work very well at all. I kind of got that was the line of thinking, and now that I know what it came from, I got one of those "AHHHH!" moments. --Eira ^omtg! The Goat be praised. 10:20, 27 January 2008 (EST)

Fixed it! :) Thanks for the hint. --Eira ^omtg! The Goat be praised. 10:24, 27 January 2008 (EST)

I bet the Slovenian is broken since I used an autotranslator for that also. Secret Squirrel 10:33, 27 January 2008 (EST)

The Siglish is perfect, I ran it through my Hungarian to English dictionary. ħψℳ₦ ^{be in} 18:51, 21 May 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Awesome article

I thought I was making a red link when I added it over at NAFTA, imagine my surprise when it wasn't, and when I actually came and read this! Should it have a "see also" (en Espanol, of course) to cabra? human ^sap 13:13, 18 April 2008 (EDT)

[edit] UTF-8

Please ensure that all material on this page is encoded with UTF-8, so that it all works together. Thanks :) --Eira ^omtg! The Goat be praised. 19:24, 21 May 2008 (EDT)

Siglish? What would that be? --Eira ^omtg! The Goat be praised. 19:28, 21 May 2008 (EDT)

The special language used by many Trashional Wikians in the signatures... ħψℳ₦ ^{hilarious link to my talk page goes here} 19:47, 21 May 2008 (EDT)

It looks a bit like nonsense... I'm sorry, but I'd rather suggest that we use only languages that are well established. (Or, alternatively, have an ISO code). --Eira ^omtg! The Goat be praised. 20:22, 21 May 2008 (EDT)

Um, most of this looks like nonsense - one is just question marks! I put it back, it's not hurting anyone, is it? ħψℳ₦^culous 22:38, 21 May 2008 (EDT)

Eira, please discuss and give a good reason here rather than continuing to delete my contribution, 'k? ħψℳ₦ ^{be in} 23:13, 21 May 2008 (EDT)

Discussion is below, on its own header. --Eira ^omtg! The Goat be praised. 23:15, 21 May 2008 (EDT)

I know enough about the languages posted to know that it's not just gibberish, or just made up. (Ok, I don't know the Chinook) The question marks are showing because you don't have a font in that coding plane of Unicode. Unfortunately, Microsoft seems to think people don't need East Asian fonts, unless they insist on having them. That is what it most likely is. --Eira ^omtg! The Goat be praised. 23:16, 21 May 2008 (EDT)

I know the question marks are an Asian font - you might want to remove the spaces I put in between them if there is actual coded "something" there. Otherwise, it's still a cool joke for those used to seeing the "??? ??" things at Wikipedia because they don't have the font(s) installed. I also commented below. ħψℳ₦ ^ingenuity 23:25, 21 May 2008 (EDT)

Y'all don't know the Chinook? Japanese font showing up as ???'s? Oh dear. Ironic, no? Secret Squirrel 20:59, 22 May 2008 (EDT)

[edit] To clear up anything

"traducido al castilliano" means "Translated to Castillian," which is a minor dialect of Spanish, like Catalonian, etc, that was taken out of context from WP. ✡ ՔՎɌ⟰ 20:36, 21 May 2008 (EDT)

Castillian - "a minor dialect of Spanish"? I rather doubt it! It's the main form spoken on the Spanish peninsular anyway.--Bob^{bing up} 02:18, 22 May 2008 (EDT)

It's actually the Iberian Peninsula. And as far as Spanish goes, there's Mexican, Cuban, Chilean, Argentinian... The list goes on. Unlike Commonwealth English, the Spanish spoken in the colonies has diverged much more from the English spoken in the colonies. (Possibly due to all the various Spanishes diverging equally, meanwhile American English is way closer to Victorian English than Commonwealth English is.) --Eira ^omtg! The Goat be praised. 04:19, 22 May 2008 (EDT)

I understand, I speak enough Spanish to realize "doof! she's right!" Hehe. --Eira ^omtg! The Goat be praised. 20:53, 21 May 2008 (EDT)

By the way, I copied the "see also" (if it does indeed say that!) from cabra, you might want to make sure it says what I think it says. ħψℳ₦ ^troll 23:26, 21 May 2008 (EDT)

Oh yeah, it was right and all, don't worry about that. I changed it to Esperanto... it's kind of hard to choose one language to represent all the titles, I figure the International Language probably works just as well as anything else. --Eira ^omtg! The Goat be praised. 00:21, 22 May 2008 (EDT)

Excellent, nice choice! ħψℳ₦ ^{be in} 00:34, 22 May 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Siglish

First, Siglish is composed of random letters from random alphabets (and possibly abjads). Next, the overwhelming results for "siglish" point to it being a manually coded form of English, not some whatever. If you want to include it, I would need a direct link to the page (likely as a <ref> tag.) So that I can actually make sure you aren't just making stuff up. --Eira ^omtg! The Goat be praised. 23:13, 21 May 2008 (EDT)

First "siglish" is a word I made up earlier today, in this context. Second, you are taking this way too seriously. Third, I appreciate the humor of the accurate translations being the body of the article, but am I somehow not allowed to make my own contribution to the article, down near the bottom, where it doesn't get in the way? Fourth, this is a wiki - a collaborative project - if you want to control the content of a page ("If you want to include it, I would need a direct link to the page") put it in the Essay namespace. Fifth - I am making it up!!! It's a freakin' joke - I sat with the edit window open randomly clicking on characters below it, then added spaces, punctuation and links. And let's face it, other than the heavy-handed "not writing the article in English" joke, that line is the only Goat in the article so far. ħψℳ₦^{ly possible} 23:24, 21 May 2008 (EDT)

Well all the other stuff actually MEANS something:

• "試みないで。す る。し ない。 試み がない。" = (Japanese, kanji+kana) "Do not try. Do. Do not. There is no try".
• "Amerika de eigo dake shaberarenai hito wa totemo baka, dayo. Amerika no hito wa iroiro kuni no hito deskara, nandemo no kotoba ga ii to omou." = (japanese with romaaji) In America, people who can only speak in English are totally stupid. Americans are from many origins, whichever language is good, I think.
• "Selvom det unægteligt vill gøre mange offentlige forhold nemmere, er det grundlæggende en umådeligt tåbelig, for ikke at sige intolerant ide. Styrke gennem mangfoldighed!" = (Danish) "Although it undeniably will make many public relation easier, it is basically a tremendously stupid, not to say intolerant idea. Strength through diversity!" (this needs to be fixed... it appears to have been through an autotranslator)
• "Moči vi ugibati kakšen jezik to je?" = (Slovenian) "Can you guess what language this is?"

And the others I know are more-or-less valid languages and sentences. The whole idea of this page is lost if there isn't meaning behind what we put in it. --Eira ^omtg! The Goat be praised. 23:59, 21 May 2008 (EDT)

Well, the "siglish" entry I added means "In America only is English spoken, which shall be the one Language of the People and no funny talkin' furrinerz can be Murkins if they don't larn it!!!" Only the punctuation changes in translation. "The whole idea of this page" - you're back to trying to control. Let go. There are awesome furrin language thingies on it. There is surely room for one that no one can translate? Does that not make teh joek teh bettah? Teh kittehs agree with me in pmail ;) ħψℳ₦ ^clues 00:39, 22 May 2008 (EDT)

Teh Kitteh r wif MEH! But you'll agree... if someone added English to the page, it would totally destroy the joke. :( -- ^{— Unsigned, by: Eira / talk / contribs} 00:59, 22 May 2008 (EDT)

Noes!! Teh kittehs are wif meeeh!!! I certainly agree on the no English rule, that's the main structural joke, and I think it rulzorz. I always have, ever since I linked here expecting red. I appreciate the grammatically-correct title, since that's how I found it. ħψℳ₦ ^{be in} 01:45, 22 May 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Danish

I can assure you that the above sentence is entirely correct and that I am not an auto-translator. ;-) --AKjeldsen^{Cum dissensie} 05:25, 22 May 2008 (EDT)

Well, *shrug* I'm not perfect, Lama knows. However, it's also one of those situations where I know swedish, and all the Scandinavian languages are all pretty similar. So, basically it just looked a little wrong to me, because it didn't match Swedish vernacular close enough.

[edit] Fun

This should really be in the funspace. We aren't even attempting to be informative, we're just having a good time. There is nothing wrong with that, but we should do so in the funspace. That's what it's for.

The English-only movement is a major front used by nativists. We trivialize the dark core of racism behind it by having a mainspace article that tells us absolutely nothing about the subject. _Essayist RA ^Talk __Fruitcake! 05:05, 22 May 2008 (EDT)

As RA points out, the issue is a real one, and fits in perfectly with RW's mission. As for fun, a case could be made that ridicule and satire are a valid means of exposing the xenophobia inherent in the Emnglish-only movement. Rational Ed^think! 09:56, 22 May 2008 (EDT)

Agree with RA; Fun it & start a new real article. Susan^{Teh Antichrist am I?} 10:06, 22 May 2008 (EDT)

The only "problem" with this article is it does not explain anything to someone who doesn't read any of the languages used. I suggest we break down and write about it in English (or British, or Canadian, perhaps an Australian version for PJR) after what we already have. And it should open "Now, for those of you who are only literate in one language..." (or "And now for something completely different — it's...") ħψℳ₦ ^{there is no cabal} 13:13, 22 May 2008 (EDT)

The "problem" with Americans is the monolinguistic imperialism that is inherent in our culture. RW's purpose is a snarky point of view, and I cannot see a more snarky point of view than to show this without any English... I'm willing to concede a machine-translated version from the Spanish into English. I think that would have the best effect of adding usefulness of the text to you monolinguisitic imperialists, while still maintaining the "none of the contributions on this page are in English." --Eira ^omtg! The Goat be praised. 14:21, 6 August 2008 (EDT)

See, to me if you want to retain the snark, but add something informative, you can easily make a "UK" link, like the spanish, and the French using some dialect of english with colorful spelling, sayings, vocab choice and still be readable. For what it's worth, the "spanlish" or whatever Human proposed would have done it quite well. I don't see why this has to be "so serious".--Waiting for Godot 14:32, 6 August 2008 (EDT)

I still see no problem with actually getting into the issue below the various language statements. Eira, you seem to be the only one insisting we type no English at all on the article page. This isn't an issue of your "conceding" and "allowing" others to add what they feel should be here, it's an issue of a community that wants to make the best possible article. I am now beginning to lean in RA's direction - move the completely non-English article to "fun" and write a real one here. Or keep them together as I suggest.

I would also have no problem with taking whatever we write in English and presenting it first in it's entirety in other languages first. That way the English will get buried several screens down. By the way, I'm not an imperialist. Also, being fluent in barely one language doesn't make me a "monolingualist". ħuman ^thoughts 22:01, 6 August 2008 (EDT)

I must concede the article is "English-only"... the only requirement for irony of the article is that English not be the only language presented. I like your suggestion, where English is just one among the sea of other languages presented for the article.  :) Also "monolingual" means only knowing one language :P. --Eira ^omtg! The Goat be praised. 01:07, 8 August 2008 (EDT)

So we are on the same page? I love the multilingual aspect of this page, don't get me wrong. I love the idea of several pages (screens) of non-english. I also think, that after all that, we should deliver a scathing article on the WUN-LANGWIGCH movement. And whatever the article says, inglish comes LAST. Remember, I loved, and still love, your joke, and it should come first. ħuman ^sap 01:14, 8 August 2008 (EDT)

Yes, we're on the same page. :) Go ahead and snark away... :) --Eira ^omtg! The Goat be praised. 13:51, 8 August 2008 (EDT)

Both of you are such twits... _Essayist RA ^Talk __Fruitcake! 19:15, 16 August 2008 (EDT)

Hey! I resemble such remark! :P --Eira ^omtg! The Goat be praised. 16:14, 17 August 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Mission

"English only!" sounds authoritarian to me.--Bob^{bing up} 11:23, 11 August 2008 (EDT)

Yep. Now let us remove the template without further delay. Jellyfish!^Chaos! 11:32, 11 August 2008 (EDT)

Yeah, as well, it's definitely a "crank idea", and has to do with rationalism. There is no rationally valid reason to consider English superior to all other languages. In fact, the page as presented is probably understood by more of the world than if it were strictly English-only. RW is not US-centric... that's Conservapedia. So, our focus should be international, to the point of telling US authoritarians (you know, the ones that think the US is the best place on Earth... PERIOD) that they're full of crap, and to try living in another nation for awhile, and see how well THEY can pick up a language as an adult. Meanwhile, none of this mentions the hundreds if not thousands of individuals in New Mexico (as well as Arizona, Texas, and California) who speak Spanish natively, or exclusively, and have been US citizens since their territory was purchased / annexed by the US government. --Eira ^omtg! The Goat be praised. 16:02, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

I got a chuckle out of your last line... The last land the US got from Mexico was the Gadsden Purchase in 1853. [1] ħuman ^sap 17:41, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

Yeah, which means quite a few generations of people that had just suddenly become Americans. Basically, the only difference between those on one side of the Gadsden Purchase, and the other, was where they lived. Some got "lucky" and ended up US citizens, and others, damn, sorry, if only you lived a few miles north :( --Eira ^omtg! The Goat be praised. 05:32, 13 August 2008 (EDT)

But your tenses made it sound as if you were talking about people living now... anyway, yah, to quote Mencia, "I didn't move - the border did!" Speaking of which, were/are people in acquired territories automatically and instantly granted US citizenship? Or did/do they have to wait for statehood? ħuman ^{be in} 16:48, 13 August 2008 (EDT)

Such people are living today... they simply have to have their citizenship directly dependent upon the border having moved. For example, my father lives in New Mexico, however he was not born their, and none of his ancestors were Mexican at any time. My mother on the other hand was born to an entirely native Hispanic, who spoke Spanish natively, and a man who's history was dutch having entered the US through the coast (of texas/mexico) during the times that it was Mexican controlled. For this reason, my mother (still living) is literally only an American citizen because the border moved. Both of them live together. In fact, were New Mexico not a state, my father would never have moved there, and I would never have been born... and any children that my mother had had would be mexican citizens. I'm not talking about 1st generation "border moved over me", but rather otherwise. Also, Puerto Rico citizens are US citizens by birth. They don't have to wait for statehood. --Eira ^omtg! The Goat be praised. 20:06, 13 August 2008 (EDT)

Pedantic defense of what was a funny misphrase days ago, I guess. Wait, your grandfather entered texaco 160 years ago?! I guess I don't know how old you are... So everyone born west of the original British cession is a citizen by virtue of the "border moving"? ħuman ^{there is no cabal} 20:18, 13 August 2008 (EDT)

No, his ancestors arrived in texaco, not the United States. The history of my mother's side is entirely contained within territory, and by people who were living in that territory before it became part of the US. --Eira ^omtg! The Goat be praised. 01:11, 14 August 2008 (EDT)

So he was born in US territory... ħuman ^{why is there a weird line through the "h" in my username?} 01:32, 14 August 2008 (EDT)

Only by fact that the border had moved. If the border hadn't moved, he would have been mexican. --Eira ^omtg! The Goat be praised. 15:24, 14 August 2008 (EDT)

Ah, I think I see where our semantic difference falls - I'm thinking "border moved while living there" and you are generalizing to "border moved at some point". Not that any of this matters, although I think mencia's joke, which I took to mean the narrower interpretation, works better with the broader one (yours). ħuman ^random 15:47, 14 August 2008 (EDT)

Eira: explaining jokes since 1994 *laugh* :) --Eira ^omtg! The Goat be praised. 13:35, 15 August 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Could I put a kip in American Sign Language?

It is, i supposem another language. I could upload a bunch of images and line them up to spell out what deaf people would use. I am asking, however, because it is AMERICAN sign language so... I am not sure. JÁνąŞ₡Ωp Talk to ME MOWSE!

BSL (British sign language) is very other fom ASL. Susan^{Antichrist (the) am I?} 00:14, 31 August 2008 (EDT)

Yeah, I do know there are other forms of sign language, but sadly, the only form I know is ASL. I DO know a little Australian Sign Language, but not enough to place it in and know I did it right. My point is that while ASL (American) is technically English (as is British sign language) it's technically also not English as it isn't spoken so I want to get a community idea before I add in American Sign Language. JÁνąŞ₡Ωp Talk to ME MOWSE!

Separate article? (They're pretty comprehensively covered on WP though) I'd have to ask: Mission? Susan^{Am I the Anti christ?} 00:21, 31 August 2008 (EDT)

Australian & NZ is related to BSL, apparently. Susan^{Antichrist (the) am I?} 00:25, 31 August 2008 (EDT)

This page is supposed to be the "English Only Movement" (which I do disprove of, as this is a counrty of many nations and, hence languages.), and I would like to contribute in this page by forming sign language to replicate what is being said in German, Spanish, Hebrew, and all the other languages. I don't really want to make another page on ASL because, as you said, mission doubt. I do want to put it down because it is the only language aside from English I know (being hard of hearing and all). What I am trying to touch on, however, is if ASL is English, or if it is "another language".

JÁνąŞ₡Ωp Talk to ME MOWSE! (edt conflict)

You'd know better than me. If you just use the 'Alphabet signs' then it's English but once you go onto the symbolics then you're able to express concepts etc in a different way - so then it is a different language, No? Moot point. Susan^{Talk(if you must)} 00:34, 31 August 2008 (EDT)

I shall get to work on the gestures as soon as I can. I was already planning to use the gestures, I just wanted approval from somone other than myself. I am planning to make a text file and use those to show the language. JÁνąŞ₡Ωp Talk to ME MOWSE! {edt}

Interesting: in Sri Lanka they don't speak English but use BSL - so what.s going on there? It seems to be a mixture of an alphabetised language and a (whatever those Chinese/Japanese things are called - memory GOING). So I suppose it's not realy a language in the traditional meaning of the word as you can speak Spanish in ASL, I presume. Susan^{Am I the Anti christ?} 00:41, 31 August 2008 (EDT) (EC)

I suppose it is entirely possible for a person who doesn't speak a word of english to communicate with a deaf person in ASL, with a complete barrier in the spoken language. JÁνąŞ₡Ωp Talk to ME MOWSE!

The alphabetised ones apart, that is. Apparently a Japanese can read Chinese Ideograms & vice versa although the spoken language is totally different. That's the downside of an alphabetised language. Susan^{Talk(if you must)} 00:59, 31 August 2008 (EDT)

Status report: At the time I am working on translating and making grammatical sense of the Spanish Translation. The end result in sign language would be... a bit appalingly long, so I am shortening it down to this. "The English-only movement is a political movement to make English the sole official language in the United States of America." Bear in mind this will take more space than indicated due to the fact the symbols need to be a bit larger for people to see. JÁνąŞ₡Ωp Talk to ME MOWSE!

I say the ASL thing is an awesome idea. ħuman ^{steadfastly refusing to drink the green Mowse-Ade} 00:56, 31 August 2008 (EDT)

Thank you =) JÁνąŞ₡Ωp Talk to ME MOWSE!

Interestingly I was about to download the BSL font when I realised it wouldn't be much use unless everyone had it, DUH! Looking for sign language font in google - strange: BSL products: all free; ASL: $$$. Susan^{Talk(if you must)} 01:10, 31 August 2008 (EDT)

Update: Just finishing the translation for "United States of America" in alphabetised version. JÁνąŞ₡Ωp Talk to ME MOWSE!

This is my go-to site for free fonts. Awesome stuff. To get around the installed issue, do what I did for Bob at Ten Commandments - create images using the font you want. ħuman^{e society} 01:21, 31 August 2008 (EDT)

No ASL or BSL on there H. Susan^{Antichrist (the) am I?} 01:28, 31 August 2008 (EDT)

Yeah, I did quick search, bummer. Still, it's an awesome font site! ħuman ^thoughts 02:23, 31 August 2008 (EDT)

(Unindent) This is the addition spelled out, awaiting judgement on if it needs to be translated into fluent sign language, or if it can be left as is.User:JAvascap/sig.

Fucking awesome. Want to redo it as a gif? jpg is really bad for line drawings... ħuman ^clues 02:04, 31 August 2008 (EDT)

"movemen"? Shouldn't there be a "t" at the end? Both of them seem to be missing it. --Eira ^omtg! The Goat be praised. 07:10, 31 August 2008 (EDT)

The image is at first originally correct, however it's not ASL... it's just English spelled out with the ASL alphabet. If you can actually do something in real sign language, I'm looking for the name of the way that sign language can be written as is, and not reprocessed into English. --Eira ^omtg! The Goat be praised. 02:15, 31 August 2008 (EDT)

Found it, it's called SignWriting and it has everything you need to actually write out real ASL, rather than just English with the ASL alphabet. --Eira ^omtg! The Goat be praised. 02:17, 31 August 2008 (EDT)

Eh, whatever, I say put it up, and improve it later. ħuman ^{steadfastly refusing to drink the green Mowse-Ade} 02:21, 31 August 2008 (EDT)

I did the SignWriting version: --Eira ^omtg! The Goat be praised. 03:13, 31 August 2008 (EDT)

Literal translation "only English movement, from supporters name proper decided english movement, politics movement propose use establish english for only proper decided language in USA" Needless to say, it comes out silly looking... We can have a native ASL speak arrange the words properly later. --Eira ^omtg! The Goat be praised. 03:15, 31 August 2008 (EDT)

Yes, awesome too! ħuman ^sap 03:31, 31 August 2008 (EDT)

I could be wrong, but I have the impression that the word order in sign languages does not follow the word order in spoken languages. In other words the word order in this translation may be correct.--Bob^{bing up} 05:22, 31 August 2008 (EDT)

I know the word order is correct here, I just don't know if it's best, and it likely isn't. *shrug* As noted a native German speaker finally corrected the small issues with my German translation... and almost certainly a native ASL speaker would be able to phrase this a little better as well. I'm likely a little more worried about the prepositional use... and just the word order sounds odd to me in the sign language... not as fluid and interesting as I find most of it usually to be. (btw, ASL has really flexible word order, it just tends to prefer with native speakers to differ greatly from English, however since they're all pretty much fluent in written English, they're able to understand things in English word-order.) --Eira ^omtg! The Goat be praised. 06:33, 31 August 2008 (EDT)

Some minor corrections... "use" => "establish" and "proper" => "decide"... the decide sign is a lot more of a "official" type sign, as it is like saying "this is it", rather than saying "this is correct". As well using "establish" over simply "use" should be pretty clear. --Eira ^omtg! The Goat be praised. 06:50, 31 August 2008 (EDT)

I will get to work on arranging the above as soon as my eyes finish bleeding... I have, in the many sign language books I read over and studied seen a lot of ways for movements to be expressed, but up untill now... damn, I can hardly make sense of that. O_O. JÁνąŞ₡Ωp Talk to ME MOWSE!

If you know ASL then the text is pretty easy to understand... just start signing my gloss, and you'll start getting the hang of it. There are other ways to record signs, and I'd be happy to see any of those used as well, however no person who knows ASL would sit there and spell out the entire sentence that you've presented. --Eira ^omtg! The Goat be praised. 16:51, 31 August 2008 (EDT)

After many thinkings and brain thingies going on, I have come to the conclusion that sign languaging the translation would require a moving .gif image, of which I have no experience doing. I have, however, updated the alphabetised version. The text reads "The English-only movement is a political movement to make spoken English the sole official language in the United States of America.", which I think jabs somewhat at the irony sectour. JÁνąŞ₡Ωp Talk to ME MOWSE!

In ASL there is no confusion as to what "English" is... and English is not ASL, and not signed, unless one intends to say Signed Exact English, but even then they wouldn't spell everything out. Deaf people can certainly fingerspell really REALLY fast, but still, it's entirely inefficient to do 21 some hand movements to say "United States of America", rather than interlock you're two open hands towards yourself, and move them in a circle. (The separate open fingers symbolize the states, and interlocking them and the circular movement symbolize unity, and togetherness.) I mean, even moderately long words like "Microsoft" are always shorthanded to "MS". Again, seriously, no one but someone who has no knowledge of ASL beyond the alphabet would actually sign what you present. --Eira ^omtg! The Goat be praised. 16:51, 31 August 2008 (EDT)

Yes, it does take a helluva long time to spell out letter by letter in ASL, and yes, I do perfer using the hand gestures for phrases and words, but the problem (for the moment) is getting a sense of what is being done without scratching one's head at what is "supposed" to be said. I cannot think of a way to incorporate movement aside from making a .gif image, of which I have no experience doing. I would much perfer actual "sign language", but sadly, for the time being, I am stuck alphabetising. JÁνąŞ₡Ωp Talk to ME MOWSE!

Well, using sign language to actually spell the stuff out doesn't make much sense anyways, because ASL speakers, even native, will typically write in plain and simple English, if something need be written. Unless you're going to represent the actual signs themselves, then I think using the ASL alphabet is no more different than "look, I wrote the English version with Cyrillic characters!" At that point, it's just a nifty font that you're using. --Eira ^omtg! The Goat be praised. 17:46, 31 August 2008 (EDT)

Wow, yeah, an animated gif would be cool. They are built out of a whole series of "normal" gifs, in a program that can handle the format (my old PSP can do it), you can even interpolate "transitions" from each image to the next one (although that adds more intermediate images), and set the timing for everything. ħuman ^sap 16:07, 31 August 2008 (EDT)

Now using Stokes Notation: --Eira ^omtg! The Goat be praised. 17:43, 31 August 2008 (EDT)

(unindent) The molestation of a language just to make things easy for us, or for other people to work out what the specific language says is just entirely contrary to the irony of the article. We should be presenting each language unadulterated so that a native speaker/reader of that language would view it as if it were written by one of their own in their own language. Even if such writing would be in a script that few people know/support. --Eira ^omtg! The Goat be praised. 17:49, 31 August 2008 (EDT)

I agree with Eira, that the "ASL" as given is not ASL. It's English, signed one letter at a time. From my limited experience, that is only done with words people don't know the symbol for, and telling people how to spell your name. It would be nice to replace it with "true" ASL, which, as I also learned, is not English. ħuman ^{eats glue} 18:13, 31 August 2008 (EDT)

Some things also just don't have popularly disseminated signs. Like "Spinach", the best you can do is fingerspell it every time you're talking about it until you talk about it enough to be fed up and invent a home sign for it. --Eira ^omtg! The Goat be praised. 18:18, 31 August 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Trakudo Angle

Surely even a machine would have retained the capitalized "America" at the end? Or did it really drop it? ħuman ^speakers 16:02, 31 August 2008 (EDT)

No, it really did drop the capitalization. Silly, right? --Eira ^omtg! The Goat be praised. 16:41, 31 August 2008 (EDT)

Hilarious. That's why I asked... ħuman ^sub 17:03, 31 August 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Funny boxes instead of characters

How come my firefox doesn't try to tell me what I have to install to read them? I'd appreciate any pointers so I can see them properly... ħuman ^{be in} 18:10, 31 August 2008 (EDT)

Japanese and Greek are the primary two on the page. That's pretty much it beyond extended Latin characters. --Eira ^omtg! The Goat be praised. 18:19, 31 August 2008 (EDT)

For the boxed glyph languages (Japanese and Greek) I added a ref to each to point one to the Wikipedia articles on the languages. Let me know if you think the names should be in the neutral language (Esperanto) rather than their own native languages. --Eira ^omtg! The Goat be praised. 18:24, 31 August 2008 (EDT)

Thanks, the Greek works here, but I've never loaded the Asian languages when WP used to prompt me to do so. And I want to enjoy this page to its fullest ;). As far as the refs you added, I think they should be as you did them - in the same language as where they are called from. ħuman ^sap 18:44, 31 August 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Missing languages

Some of the missing languages I noticed off the bat, and sadly am not versed in, include Hebrew and Arabic. Is it too bold to ask for someone who even understands these languages to take their best shot at including them? --V

Well, I did my best with the Arabic. Literally translated, the grammar is pretty bad. I am saying "English only movement is movement to make English only language of America." I will get back to it and give it a better shot when my language skills becomes better. JÁνąŞ₡Ωp Talk to ME MOWSE!

I'd also like to see Hindi/Urdu, Vietnamese, and Korean. I'm pretty sure those are the other "main languages" of America. --Eira ^omtg! The Goat be praised. 17:43, 27 November 2008 (EST)

If anyone knows any Russian, please fix up what I just posted. That's my best effort at translating it, but my Russian really sucks. Researcher 18:20, 27 November 2008 (EST)

Oh yeah, Russian :) That's a good one, too. You know, I honestly think that just people trying here gives so much insight into the non-americocentric nature of Rationalwiki. :) It warms my heart to see so many people interested in helping out with this page, and fighting against the bigoted americocentricism that dominates "the world" (by which, I mean America, lol). Honest broken versions are a start, and they're a much bigger start than just dumping it into an auto-translator. That's like not even trying... not putting any effort into it, it's like the microwave version. Here's for the full golden brown rotisserie (ok, and many times burnt) meat that makes up the flesh of this page. HUZZAH! --Eira ^omtg! The Goat be praised. 19:09, 27 November 2008 (EST)

I took Russian for a few years in college and my first time in grad school, so there is some knowledge and thought that went into it. (However, my Chinese version is probably much better...that's my second language. Russian was going to be third.) Researcher 19:18, 27 November 2008 (EST)

[edit] Una Pictura Que Los Lectores Deben Pensar Que Es Graciosa Y Tonta!

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/6166/americasofficallanguagelo3.jpgBassoonsAreSexy 14:06, 30 November 2008 (EST)

I've seen that before, somewhere, but I see no link in the rest of the talk page to it. Perhaps we (you) should add it as an external link from the article? ħuman ^{be in} 21:20, 30 November 2008 (EST)

Oops, never mind, it's in the blog entry in the "exophobic link" section... ħuman ^{be in} 21:21, 30 November 2008 (EST)