Debate:Privacy clusterfuck
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This is a Debate page. Feel free to add your own spin on the story. Please keep it civil!
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Terry Koeckritz
Just to make Terry Koeckritz a little more crazy and "on edge", a google search puts him in the Greater Los Angeles Area and he "runs" a Computer & Network Security apparently, whatever the hell that is. BTW, is his last name Polish or something? I'm Polish, but my last name is nothing like that (mostly because I have my dad's African last name). --Beishanlong grandis 23:53, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
- Whilst this shit is not a bad as yesterday, it has got to stop. The Community standards has anybody read this? For fuck's sake people you are not scaring him, this is his kind of sick game. Are you better than him or not? Nothing pisses me off more than people acting like him. We think he is a degenerate tosser, so why are you behaving like him? - π 00:56, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
- WILL YOU ASSHOLES STOP STALKING PEOPLE?! Now. Seriously. ħuman
03:54, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
- And will you calm. The fuck. Down. Now. Seriously. Googling somebody's name isn't stalking and if you think most people here haven't already done the exact same search, you're delusional. The stuff about his mother was clearly beyond the pale, but if somebody decides to create a public profile about themselves on the internet then they shouldn't be surprised if people they don't like find that information. Whilst I wouldn't have posted that information myself, there is nothing wrong with somebody doing so, beyond the policy violation. Rpeh 04:42, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
- If there is nothing wrong with it beyond the policy violation, we would not have made it a policy. Problem have occurred in the past, we do not want repeats. Sure laugh at his idiocy and thuggery on CP, but leave his real life work out of it. - π 05:09, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
- Actually, it isn't even a policy violation. He has volunteered the information - it's publicly available. If somebody were to use it to do further research (finding out companies he has consulted for, or something like that) then that would be different. In this case, nothing in the first post is secondary - it all comes from the first link you get off Google. If he didn't want that information public, he shouldn't have published it in a public place. Rpeh 05:19, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
- No information gained through personal research should be presented. That is what Googling someone's name is, personal research. Have a look back through the policy discussions if you want to see the reasoning and details. This point is mute, what Beishanlong did was violation of policy as it is written. Your joke was both unfunny and a violation of policy.- π 06:03, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
- Actually, it isn't even a policy violation. He has volunteered the information - it's publicly available. If somebody were to use it to do further research (finding out companies he has consulted for, or something like that) then that would be different. In this case, nothing in the first post is secondary - it all comes from the first link you get off Google. If he didn't want that information public, he shouldn't have published it in a public place. Rpeh 05:19, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
- If there is nothing wrong with it beyond the policy violation, we would not have made it a policy. Problem have occurred in the past, we do not want repeats. Sure laugh at his idiocy and thuggery on CP, but leave his real life work out of it. - π 05:09, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
- And will you calm. The fuck. Down. Now. Seriously. Googling somebody's name isn't stalking and if you think most people here haven't already done the exact same search, you're delusional. The stuff about his mother was clearly beyond the pale, but if somebody decides to create a public profile about themselves on the internet then they shouldn't be surprised if people they don't like find that information. Whilst I wouldn't have posted that information myself, there is nothing wrong with somebody doing so, beyond the policy violation. Rpeh 04:42, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
- WILL YOU ASSHOLES STOP STALKING PEOPLE?! Now. Seriously. ħuman
- I agree with Pi, this kind of shit makes you no better than TK. It's not in the same ballpark as posting a picture of his mother, but it is the same game. Taunt him through text as much as you like, but don't fucking go anywhere near his RL. --PitchBlackMind 01:08, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
- I am sorry Beishanlong, I did over step the mark with some of my comments. A lot of people weren't around in the bad old days. When there were phone calls to people's work and letters sent to their universities trying to fuck with their actual lives, all because of a disagreement over the editorial content of a small online encyclopaedia which nobody reads now except for a laugh. When RationalWiki was set up there were legal threats against some people. This is why we have the policies we do, because we have seen what happens when the line between the internet and RL gets blurred. - π 01:15, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
- Don't forget the FBI! --Gulik 01:55, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
- I question whether that's even his real name for various reasons I won't go into, but who cares. Make it personal online, but leave the real life shit out of it and you'll thank him for doing the same. He really does call people's bosses on the phone if he can find them.
User:Nutty Roux/sigtalk 02:51, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
- I remember reading about him threatening a soldier in an e-mail with his mysterious White House contacts. I like to think of how the conversation would go:
- General: (Answers phone) Hello, General Ripper speaking.
- TK: (On the other end) Hello, Jack! It's TK!
- General: Who?
- TK: You know, TK! From IT! I fixed your Blue Screen of Death back when you were a colonel.
- General: Uh, ok. Can I help you, TJ?
- TK: Yes sir. I know you're busy running two land conflicts, but I have the sad duty to report some serious misconduct of one of your officers.
- General: Shit. Thanks for telling me first, BJ. What happened?
- TK: Well sir, he said some mean things to me on the Internet.
- General: (Click)
- -Corry 02:56, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
- Oops. Didn't know this would stir up a whole can of worms. I have better things to do in RL than "stalk" TK or excessively focus on CP my whole life. I just thought it would be funny to get his paranoia up. Besides, you all should know by now never to expect any good from someone who's a biploar (semi)drunk off their meds and rocker editing on a wiki. Honestly, who was the smart one who gave me admin rights!? JK Ace Either way, I'm sorry, and not completely useless. After all, I do have broad knowledge of paleontology, eg., not completely useless in dismantling feeble creationist arguments. And don't bother asking me how this conversation got here; I've been up for finals since Monday morning, and I actually manage to get some sleep tonight. Can't think of anything else better/more to say. --Beishanlong grandis 03:40, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
- I remember reading about him threatening a soldier in an e-mail with his mysterious White House contacts. I like to think of how the conversation would go:
- I question whether that's even his real name for various reasons I won't go into, but who cares. Make it personal online, but leave the real life shit out of it and you'll thank him for doing the same. He really does call people's bosses on the phone if he can find them.
- Don't forget the FBI! --Gulik 01:55, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
- I am sorry Beishanlong, I did over step the mark with some of my comments. A lot of people weren't around in the bad old days. When there were phone calls to people's work and letters sent to their universities trying to fuck with their actual lives, all because of a disagreement over the editorial content of a small online encyclopaedia which nobody reads now except for a laugh. When RationalWiki was set up there were legal threats against some people. This is why we have the policies we do, because we have seen what happens when the line between the internet and RL gets blurred. - π 01:15, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
(unindent)Suggestion: instead of summarizing the details, please link the search/articles instead. That way we are only looking at information they are willing to release to public, at the location of their choice. Summarizing/transcribing the content may have the problem that 1) the person may not want the information to be released here and 2) we may not be doing it in context/verbatim. Thank you for your attention. [[User:K61824|]][[User_talk:K61824|]] 05:14, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
- /K{1}[0-9]{5}/ I have already removed the link because it was a violation of policy. I am frankly getting sick of this. Read the policy guidelines and if you are unclear feel free to leave a message on my talkpage and I will explain them details. There are several pages of archives of the arguments we had when writing the guidelines you can peruse to see the reasoning. But here is an idea, how about you give me your name and the city you live in and I will add all the information I can find out about you to your RationalWikiWiki profile? - π 06:03, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
- The ones acting like Terry Koeckritz are you and Human. You're telling people off because of the way you interpret the rules and because you take yourselves far, far too seriously. Rpeh 06:36, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
- I tell you what Reph, email TK your phone number and your place of work and find out how much fun he really is. - π 06:41, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
- Why would I do that? I haven't made that information public so it's a silly suggestion in this case. Neither has k61824, so suggesting that s?he volunteer personal information to illustrate the dangers of volunteering personal information was also a silly suggestion. Terry Koeckritz gave his name to the LA Times, which he was under no obligation to do (incidentally, don't you think outing SharonS as the anonymous contributor to that article was far worse than anything said on this page?). Terry Koeckritz has also posted personal information about himself on publicly available websites. Jumping up and down about it now won't change anything. Rpeh 06:47, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
- That is right, he gave away his name once, in 2007 and you now are going to use this to gain what ever information you can about him? You wouldn't like it done to you, hence why you won't give out your name, so why should we subject TK to it? - π 06:51, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
- The bigger picture is this... Beyond the question of morality. We specifically said it's against policy, we argued back and forth when writing them and thati s policy. If you don't like it, you're welcome to take it up on the policy page and try to argue your case. Until then, don't post it. Simple enough? SirChuckBBoom Goes the Dynamite 06:53, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
- In fact I'm not disagreeing with the policy. I've already stated I wouldn't have posted the information myself. I'm trying to point out that there has been a vastly disproportionate response from Human and Π. Whether you like it or not, the information Beishanlong posted is out there on the internet, and not even remotely difficult to find. The fact that he only gave out his name once is immaterial. He did it, and it's now out there. This is a perfect demonstration of why you shouldn't give out information if there's a chance you might ever wish you hadn't.
- Take my case. Since I'm on a few wikis, it won't take anybody interested long to discover that my full name is Robert Peter Edward Herbert and that I'm a computer programmer working in London for a shipping company. You'll easily be able to find my own Facebook and LinkedIn profiles (to save you the bother, here and here - the facebook photo is several years old). What you won't find is my phone number, address, or the name of the shipping company, because I haven't ever posted that information publicly.
- So back to the point. The accusations that anybody has been stalking TK or in any way acting like him are unfounded. I personally haven't broken any of your policies, so claiming that I have is plain wrong. SirChuckB's response was perfectly fair and restrained, but I wish the same could be said of others. Rpeh 07:10, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
- Yup, I'm absolutely convinced that is you rpeh. Yup, for sure. ħuman 07:15, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
- Yup, I'm absolutely convinced that is you rpeh. Yup, for sure. ħuman
- The bigger picture is this... Beyond the question of morality. We specifically said it's against policy, we argued back and forth when writing them and thati s policy. If you don't like it, you're welcome to take it up on the policy page and try to argue your case. Until then, don't post it. Simple enough? SirChuckBBoom Goes the Dynamite 06:53, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
- That is right, he gave away his name once, in 2007 and you now are going to use this to gain what ever information you can about him? You wouldn't like it done to you, hence why you won't give out your name, so why should we subject TK to it? - π 06:51, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
- Why would I do that? I haven't made that information public so it's a silly suggestion in this case. Neither has k61824, so suggesting that s?he volunteer personal information to illustrate the dangers of volunteering personal information was also a silly suggestion. Terry Koeckritz gave his name to the LA Times, which he was under no obligation to do (incidentally, don't you think outing SharonS as the anonymous contributor to that article was far worse than anything said on this page?). Terry Koeckritz has also posted personal information about himself on publicly available websites. Jumping up and down about it now won't change anything. Rpeh 06:47, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
- I tell you what Reph, email TK your phone number and your place of work and find out how much fun he really is. - π 06:41, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
- The ones acting like Terry Koeckritz are you and Human. You're telling people off because of the way you interpret the rules and because you take yourselves far, far too seriously. Rpeh 06:36, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
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This conversation is about to go badly downhill, inevitably ending in comparisons to Hitler, and hurt feelings all around. |
I bet this is what TK would've wanted. FlareTalk 07:17, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
- TK loves this shit, we use to have this argument with him when he was here out in the open. I must say I always find your name worryingly close to one of his old socks. - π 07:21, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
- Well we haven't had comparison's to Hitler but we have had accusations of being TK - which amounts to the same. Why don't we move this to a debate page? I think I can see both sides of this and would like to contribute but I don't think this is the right page to do it on. Just my thoughts. StarFish 07:46, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
- If people can lay off the ad hominem comments it might be worth having the discussion. Rpeh 08:52, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
- If there’s just one thing that’s important its not sinking to TK’s level. For your self-respect for one thing. If you do try and take him on he’ll probably beat you anyway, not because he’s more clever than you, just because at no point will he feel shame when he's thinking about his possible 'attacks'. OncomingStorm 12:19, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
- If people can lay off the ad hominem comments it might be worth having the discussion. Rpeh 08:52, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
- Well we haven't had comparison's to Hitler but we have had accusations of being TK - which amounts to the same. Why don't we move this to a debate page? I think I can see both sides of this and would like to contribute but I don't think this is the right page to do it on. Just my thoughts. StarFish 07:46, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
TK and big fucking grey zeros
Firstly why the fuck are we arguing about TK? Shouldnt everyone be aware that no matter who we do not engage in stalkerish activites at RW. Fuck who ever it is, TK or not, everyone should fucking know better. Remember you internet etiquitte and the RW "holier than thou" way. Secondly the big fucking grey zeros on WIGO are freaking hideous. Ace McWickedi9 11:14, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
- From my point of view, the argument isn't about TK, it's about what is and isn't unwarranted stalking. I've posted a couple of links in the Saloon Bar and people have posted comments about them; others have copied and pasted material from pages in a similar manner. None of this activity has caused any comment. What is different about posting publicly available material about a person? SuperJosh's Schlafly Doo and the Conservapedia Gang stories (which are very funny incidentally) contain details about the general location in which Andrew Schlafly lives, but haven't been subjected to the kind of vituperative comments seen here. Others have posted similar things about TK and again, nothing.
- So why is there a double standard? Why can publicly available material on some subjects not be linked to or posted? All I've had so far is "Bad boy for even asking!"
- Finally, I should add I have absolutely no problem with material such as yesterday's posts about TK's family being removed. THAT was stalking, and bringing people with no links to CP into it is clearly wrong. Rpeh 12:06, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
- And can somebody explain how this policy fits in with the links on Roger Schlafly's page? Rpeh 12:17, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
- He provided them all on his CP page. This shit is getting out of hand I am moving it to a debate page. - π 12:28, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
- And can somebody explain how this policy fits in with the links on Roger Schlafly's page? Rpeh 12:17, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
Turdblossom
This is one of many discussions that has descended into petty snipping and trolling idiocy on RationalWiki.
Here are the others, in case you are curious, bored, or enjoy pain:
- Community Standards/Revamp, January 2009 -- Community Standards/Revamp draft -- Requests for comment/HeartOfGold -- Community Standards/disruption -- HeartOfGold Sysop vote -- Site politics -- User:Copyvio's campaign to stop copyvio -- Serious Business -- Epic debate -- Cat fight -- Constitutional Convention, April 2008 -- Barroom brawls -- Voting Procedure -- Inactivity -- Property rights in WIGOs -- Nuclear Option -- The Rationalwiki Reform Society -- Community Standards/TK -- Drama dump -- The case of MarcusCicero -- Voting standards -- User rights and moderation revisited -- Make TK a sysop? -- Analysis of the relative income streams of the National Football League and international rugby union -- The mobocracy -- Statement candidacy for the RationalWiki Foundation Board of Trustees -- Is RationalWiki under the control of Feminist activists? -- Chicken coop/Archive37 -- Chicken coop -
This is one of many discussions that has descended into petty snipping and trolling idiocy on RationalWiki.
Here are the others, in case you are curious, bored, or enjoy pain:
- Community Standards/Revamp, January 2009 -- Community Standards/Revamp draft -- Requests for comment/HeartOfGold -- Community Standards/disruption -- HeartOfGold Sysop vote -- Site politics -- User:Copyvio's campaign to stop copyvio -- Serious Business -- Epic debate -- Cat fight -- Constitutional Convention, April 2008 -- Barroom brawls -- Voting Procedure -- Inactivity -- Property rights in WIGOs -- Nuclear Option -- The Rationalwiki Reform Society -- Community Standards/TK -- Drama dump -- The case of MarcusCicero -- Voting standards -- User rights and moderation revisited -- Make TK a sysop? -- Analysis of the relative income streams of the National Football League and international rugby union -- The mobocracy -- Statement candidacy for the RationalWiki Foundation Board of Trustees -- Is RationalWiki under the control of Feminist activists? -- Chicken coop/Archive37 -- Chicken coop -